Doctor Who: Fear Her

[butterfly]

First off, it's way too hot in Oregon right now.

Second, I really enjoyed this episode (The Girl in the Fireplace retains its title as the only New Who episode that I haven't liked). The Doctor and Rose were so incredibly adorable. And we got to see Rose being wonderful and competent without the Doctor, but the Doctor still got to help, and he's still managing to cram a whole lot of happiness into the smallish amount of time that they have. Also, they were so flirty in this episode. That 'are you deducting' scene was just... wow. And he assumed that she was calling him a 'beautiful boy' and was put out that she was talking to the cat! Adorable.

And, of course, even without the whole 'we know that Billie won't be there in S3' thing, the Doctor knows that the natural human lifespan is a whole lot shorter than his is (see: School Reunion). He wants to enjoy having Rose in his life while he can, because she'll die or leave (or he'll regenerate and things will change again). They have a finite amount of time together, so I don't understand why they shouldn't enjoy every moment that they can.

Of course, I was feeling this way back in Tooth and Claw when I was baffled that people found Rose and the Doctor smug and annoying (there are moments when they can be either/both of these things, but I have found them, by far, to be balanced by their moments of helpfulness and kindness and compassion). Up until they were separated, they had no clue that people were being held prisoner or that anyone might have died. For them, there was no reason to think that it was anything but a lark, because they don't know that this is one of their 'eventful enough to be filmed' adventures (but it always frustrates me when the audience expects the characters to know what's happening when they aren't on-screen).

Comments

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

They wanted to be able to do the whole "OMG! Will she die!?!" thing. *nods* Because they are evil. The 'how' rather than the 'will'.

Aw, I'm pretty happy that you didn't hate Rose. I shall make a good faith attempt not to hate whoever it is that they have set up as next season's companion (if it would just be Jack, this would be so much easier). Also, if I should rewatch tGitF soon, I'll try to ignore the emotional discontinity with the rest of the series and just pretend that it's a really short, kinda sappy movie, as I do like somewhat sappy movies.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

They wanted to be able to do the whole "OMG! Will she die!?!" thing. *nods* Because they are evil. The 'how' rather than the 'will'.

Yeah. Also it's getting quite heavy on the Anvils Of Doom, isn't it? So someone would have worked it out by now. (Possibly, though I am not certain, they got pushed into telling us by a tabloid having worked it out from Billie's filming commitments?) But ys. Now we are all waiting and flaily.


Aw, I'm pretty happy that you didn't hate Rose. I shall make a good faith attempt not to hate whoever it is that they have set up as next season's companion (if it would just be Jack, this would be so much easier).

Jack will be hella slashy with Ten. Omg. I know a fair few people are thinking of just giving up when Rose goes.


Also, if I should rewatch tGitF soon, I'll try to ignore the emotional discontinity with the rest of the series and just pretend that it's a really short, kinda sappy movie, as I do like somewhat sappy movies.

I feel like other than the Mickey stuff it fits, but then I did watch it with the half-assumption it was that Rose was leaving. I think it's doing some work in terms of establishing stuff about the Doctor for when she goes?

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Jack will be hella slashy with Ten. Omg. I know a fair few people are thinking of just giving up when Rose goes.

There are a few times when I've given up a show because my favorite character left (I stopped watching Angel for half a season after Doyle died), but I'm going to try not to do that with DW, because I have really liked most of the older stories that I've watched and I think that that's a good sign.

I feel like other than the Mickey stuff it fits, but then I did watch it with the half-assumption it was that Rose was leaving. I think it's doing some work in terms of establishing stuff about the Doctor for when she goes?

This, though. Oh, dear. I hope not. I don't want a selfish brat as my main character. If he's like that in Season Three, I probably won't like it much.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

This, though. Oh, dear. I hope not. I don't want a selfish brat as my main character. If he's like that in Season Three, I probably won't like it much.

To me it was not selfish bratness overkill cos he did have to go and save Reinette no matter what he wanted anyway. And it didn't seem like anything he wouldn't have done for Rose. Lower stakes, even, than some of the other stuff he's pulled. I think it was pretty much exactly the Rose thing all over again, but it shocked some people because it wasn't that kind to Rose specifically? She got sort of disregarded in it, like... well, like I expect Mickey felt in the next ep.

So in so far as it's selfish brattery, I think it's just the way he's always been.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

So in so far as it's selfish brattery, I think it's just the way he's always been.

Well, he's done a good job of pretending to have some human-eske emotions the last two seasons.

He just didn't seem to taking anyone's feelings into consideration, and I include Reinette here. Because if he'd given Rose a chance to say, "Go save her," she would have. We know she would have. And he could have done something to reassure poor Mickey that he wasn't being left to die. And he could have, I don't know, gone back to Reinette in the flipping TARDIS instead of the fireplace, so that Reinette didn't spend the rest of her life waiting for him to come back.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Because if he'd given Rose a chance to say, "Go save her," she would have.

I actually reckon she's the one that suggested using the horse.


And he could have, I don't know, gone back to Reinette in the flipping TARDIS instead of the fireplace, so that Reinette didn't spend the rest of her life waiting for him to come back.

But then we'd have to keep her and that would have been WEIRD. "I'm the Doctor, and these two are my girlfriends and this bloke here is the boyfriend of one of my girlfriends."

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I actually reckon she's the one that suggested using the horse.

See, I would have liked seeing that scene. Instead, we just get her looking sad and lost and that made me all sad and lost, and both of us lost a bit of faith in the Doctor being a person rather than some clever animatronic mock-up. The faith came back when he acted like himself again in the next episode, but there was a week there where I wondered if I'd ever like the Doctor again.

And he could have, I don't know, gone back to Reinette in the flipping TARDIS instead of the fireplace, so that Reinette didn't spend the rest of her life waiting for him to come back.

But then we'd have to keep her and that would have been WEIRD. "I'm the Doctor, and these two are my girlfriends and this bloke here is the boyfriend of one of my girlfriends."

Well, the Doctor would have to deal with the consequences of flirting with someone new once he already has someone in the TARDIS (I actually wanted Lynda to come on board for a bit at the end of S1, for just that kind of reason -- the Doctor really should have figured out how to interact with humans by now, and if he hasn't, he deserves a good kick in the pants).

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

See, I would have liked seeing that scene.

But then we know what's happening before he appears and we go "omg."


lost a bit of faith in the Doctor being a person rather than some clever animatronic mock-up. The faith came back when he acted like himself again in the next episode

I'd say he *was* acting like himself. *shrug* But I think the loss of faith on Rose's part is intended. She has to see what he's like when he's not being all about her.


there was a week there where I wondered if I'd ever like the Doctor again.

With me that was after 'The Long Game'. :(



Well, the Doctor would have to deal with the consequences of flirting with someone new once he already has someone in the TARDIS

The sad part is the others would get the emo. He'd probably think it was all fine.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

He'd probably think it was all fine.

Like Steve Moffatt says on the commentary, he would expect them to be best girl friends, and when Rose threw a strop he'd complain "but I let you bring Mickey!" and Mickey would have to sit him down and explain why you "can't run off with someone's girlfriend then bring another girl into your camper van"...

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Or maybe Rose would sit the Doctor down and explain the part where she didn't want Mickey to come along and shot him a look to that effect when Mickey asked to come along.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

"I thought you'd like some female company, Rose!"

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Hah, don't get me started on Stephen Moffat. I liked Coupling. I still think that it's a funny show. But everything that he's been saying recently seems to imply that he thinks Coupling is really the way the world works and is the way that every man and woman thinks, and I still haven't gotten over the colossal stupidity of that.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

I don't want a selfish brat as my main character.

Huh? When do you think he's behaved that way?

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

*rereads* Oh, okay, I thought you were talking about his reaction to Reinette's death (that's what I assumed nos meant, that that was setting up how he'd take losing Rose)

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I think it sets up that and decouples his emotions from Rose a wee bit? And certainly establishes the sexuality and love as going beyond Rose.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

His reaction to Reinette's death didn't bother me at all -- though he wouldn't have needed to have it if he'd thought for a second and remembered that the bloody fireplace zips forward in time in an uncontrollable way and had gone back to the past in his bleeding TARDIS.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I know this one! He thought he'd fixed the fireplace.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I bounce back between whether or not I think that's a good enough explanation. I suppose it can serve as an example of the Doctor's arrogance this season, but it sits poorly with me, regardless.

I just have a very hard time finding the Doctor in TGitF at all likable or even, in parts, watchable. And an unwatchable character is... well, a character that I don't want to bother watching. Like I said, luckily, I did enjoy him a great deal more in the next episode. I've liked him in every episode but that one, which is why it sticks out so.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

*shrug* I liked his emo woe. I really don't feel like he was any more arrogant than he usually is. Is it cos he was mean to Rose in it? Cos of you like her a lot and stuff, yeah?

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't actually think that was mean to Rose in TGitF. A bit dismissive at times, but no worse than he can be at other times. Part of it is that the writer's priorities felt wack. Because this is Mickey's only full story with the group, as he's leaving next week, plus, we only have this one season of Rose, which they all knew, and yet he felt it was all right to write an episode without at least finding out what had happened in the last one. Or maybe he just felt pissy about not being in the loop about Bad Wolf and Torchwood. I don't know.

I just know that TGitF feels wrong to me, like the episode of a show that I wouldn't really like all that much, so I don't like having it in Doctor Who, which is a show that I've really been enjoying. Just... if this is what the show were, on a weekly basis, I wouldn't have watched past the first episode. I don't like the frivolousness of it, don't like the main character, don't like the way it treats love as if it were a party treat that you can pick up five for two dollars. Rose and Mickey are about the only parts of it that I do like. Okay, I did like the horse.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I think Moffat really just didn;t know about Mickey? Which is teh suck, but :(

I loved GitF. It hit the emo woe good for me. fave of the season so far. that and sarah and i feel like i should llike fear her cos no one else did?

it makes me go "DONT CRY EMO TIME LORD"

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I think Moffat really just didn;t know about Mickey? Which is teh suck, but :(

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Moffat didn't know where Rose and Mickey were, relationship-wise, and nobody told him about Torchwood. What is up with that? Seriously, is he the guy who sits in the corner alone or something? And nobody told him about Bad Wolf last year, either. They had to sneak it in on a prop. Again, what is up with that? Will he still be out of the loop for whatever episode he writes next season?

I loved GitF. It hit the emo woe good for me. fave of the season so far. that and sarah and i feel like i should llike fear her cos no one else did?

Well, I really liked the emo in School Reunion. That felt like earned emo to me. With Girl, it just felt like they said -- "Right, there's emo here. Because we told you so. No, we don't need to explain it. You just have to trust us that the emo makes sense and should resonate."

And I did really enjoy Fear Her as well.

it makes me go "DONT CRY EMO TIME LORD"

Whereas it just make me want to smack him upside the head and tell him never to assume that he's fixed something when he hasn't quite figured out how it works. Also, that if he has a time-traveling ship, the smart thing would be to use that, the device that he knows works pretty well a good portion of the time, rather than the thing that he's only discovered that very day. And then maybe pat him on the shoulder and tell him that maybe he'll know better next time.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I meant to say that I don't think that the Doctor was actually mean to her in this. That's a rather important part of the sentence.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

He was just being weird and alien, I reckon.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but he's nearly always those. Those don't bother me.