Doctor Who: Fear Her

[butterfly]

First off, it's way too hot in Oregon right now.

Second, I really enjoyed this episode (The Girl in the Fireplace retains its title as the only New Who episode that I haven't liked). The Doctor and Rose were so incredibly adorable. And we got to see Rose being wonderful and competent without the Doctor, but the Doctor still got to help, and he's still managing to cram a whole lot of happiness into the smallish amount of time that they have. Also, they were so flirty in this episode. That 'are you deducting' scene was just... wow. And he assumed that she was calling him a 'beautiful boy' and was put out that she was talking to the cat! Adorable.

And, of course, even without the whole 'we know that Billie won't be there in S3' thing, the Doctor knows that the natural human lifespan is a whole lot shorter than his is (see: School Reunion). He wants to enjoy having Rose in his life while he can, because she'll die or leave (or he'll regenerate and things will change again). They have a finite amount of time together, so I don't understand why they shouldn't enjoy every moment that they can.

Of course, I was feeling this way back in Tooth and Claw when I was baffled that people found Rose and the Doctor smug and annoying (there are moments when they can be either/both of these things, but I have found them, by far, to be balanced by their moments of helpfulness and kindness and compassion). Up until they were separated, they had no clue that people were being held prisoner or that anyone might have died. For them, there was no reason to think that it was anything but a lark, because they don't know that this is one of their 'eventful enough to be filmed' adventures (but it always frustrates me when the audience expects the characters to know what's happening when they aren't on-screen).

Comments

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Off-hand Moffat's the only one writing something set before Victoria's reign. And it is quite possible/likely that RTD put some of the other ep's refs in himself.

Before and after. Torchwood could have been on the ship somewhere. We know that it existed as far forward as the Fourth Great and Bountiful Human Empire (Stunted), so why not later?

It starts throwing it in there when they've known each other for mere hours, with no effort to explain anything.

Do you mean the 'so glad I met you' in Unquiet Dead? Because, while that scene makes me go all fluttery inside, I don't think of it as primarily romantic. I think of it as a really sweet friendship moment, maybe a defining moment, where Rose realizes the thing that Reinette feels the need to tell her in Girl, that knowing the Doctor is worth the danger you have to put up with. It's one of the moments that makes the romantic stuff work for me later on.

What explainations do exist (mostly fanonically) don't jive with the positive way in which the relationship is otherwise presented. They're in love because they are. There's no effort at rhyme or reason, which at the very least Moffat attempted in tGitF, however convincing one finds it.

I suppose... I don't believe that people fall in love because they know everything all about a person. I think (and this is based entirely on my own experiences) that love, strong real love, develops out of friendship. Out of people finding things that they have in common and enjoy together. Out of finding someone that you like spending time with, and wanting to face the trials of the world with that person. And that's why Rose and the Doctor work for me, is because they have compatible personalities and just like spending time with each other.

*shrug* Worked for me.

It seemed to work for quite a few old school Doctor Who fans, from what I read.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Before and after. Torchwood could have been on the ship somewhere.

But on the other hand, do we really want Yet Another Torchwood Anvil. Small mercy for which I thank the heavens, yo.


Do you mean the 'so glad I met you' in Unquiet Dead? Because, while that scene makes me go all fluttery inside, I don't think of it as primarily romantic. I think of it as a really sweet friendship moment, maybe a defining moment, where Rose realizes the thing that Reinette feels the need to tell her in Girl, that knowing the Doctor is worth the danger you have to put up with. It's one of the moments that makes the romantic stuff work for me later on.

If they'd started pushing it in S2 I could maybe have gone for it, but S1 is so damn heavy on selling Rose to a totally unearned degree. The Adam thing is just awful, we get a Dalek proclaiming their love, blah blah fishcakes. It's not subtle and it really doesn't get any sort of context.

Until S2, when it involves a grand retcon, someone's dead mistress and the rather harsh "normalising" of Rose. All good work, all a bit late.


I suppose... I don't believe that people fall in love because they know everything all about a person. I think (and this is based entirely on my own experiences) that love, strong real love, develops out of friendship. Out of people finding things that they have in common and enjoy together.

In which case, GitF didn't need to even try the mindmeld if it's just Something Inexplicable.

Even then, what do the Doctor and Rose have in common? Other than that she's in on his lifestyle by dint of... being there at the right time.



It seemed to work for quite a few old school Doctor Who fans, from what I read.

I think it helped that she was educated, accomplished and older than 19? Nah, I really do think it hit the type a bit closer for us.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Eeep, I can't tell you how much what you said comes across as "Rose just isn't good enough for the Doctor" and how that just makes me want to throw things. I'm sure that's not what you were going for, but that's really how I took it the first time I read through your comments.

I think we might be at the point where we're just going around in circles -- I think that the romance in Season One was well-done and not at all inexplicable and you think that it was rushed and badly-done and makes no sense. And if we reverse those things, we get to what we each think of Girl.

Still, yes, what they have in common -- they both enjoy the time-travel. She's actually thrilled and happy to be on this journey with him, which has not always been true of companions in the past. They make each other laugh, which is such an important thing in a relationship to me. I just don't see where 'they get along' is Something Inexplicable. They met, were amusing each other right off the bat ("It's not a price war."), and then just kept on finding things about each other that they liked. And the Doctor found Rose physically attractive as soon as Unquiet Dead, but I have no problem buying that -- Billie Piper's gorgeous. I do think that the Doctor is feeling romantically about Rose earlier than she feels the same back -- but he's also intensely more vulnerable and open than she is -- we see that in his reactions to Jabe, I thought.

Incidentally, what was the retcon in S2? I don't really see one.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I'm sure that's not what you were going for, but that's really how I took it the first time I read through your comments.

It... may be a simmering concern in my mind.


I think that the romance in Season One was well-done and not at all inexplicable and you think that it was rushed and badly-done and makes no sense. And if we reverse those things, we get to what we each think of Girl.

It is a bit dizzying, innit?


She's actually thrilled and happy to be on this journey with him, which has not always been true of companions in the past.

Truth, RTD is very keen on companions wanting to be there.


I just don't see where 'they get along' is Something Inexplicable.

Not so much that as he seems to get along with a lot of people, so it's just not really selling it to me on the uniqueness of their relationship.


Incidentally, what was the retcon in S2? I don't really see one.

Oh, the Sarah thing. Well, I know some that didn't see it as a retcon, but they were kind of hardcore Sarahshippers to start with. Though theoretically the love for Rose itself implies a Grand Retcon where the Doctor probably got it on with a few of his ex-companions, the Sarah thing sort of sealed it.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

In hopes of explaining my feelings on the subject -- I saw Superman Returns today and I was just thinking about how I watched the Superman movies and Lois and Clark when I was younger and I was always such a fan of that relationship. And it made me think about how little an issue I have with certain types of inequality in relationships. I don't care that Superman is infinitely stronger than Lois. I don't care if the Doctor can sense things that Rose, as a human, never can. I don't care that Superman can speak pretty much every human language or that the Doctor knows things about space and time that Rose will never understand. I care about whether the parties involved place themselves on equal ground.

In other words, if the Doctor doesn't see himself as better than Rose, then the relationship is not hopelessly inequal. If the Doctor thinks that Rose's guts and cleverness and compassion are enough to put her on the same emotional ground that he occupies, it doesn't matter to me what the people around them might think. If Rose doesn't see him as too alien to love, then he isn't.

The Doctor saw something in Rose -- her stubbornness, her sparkle -- and he wanted to spend more time with her, get to know her better. The more he knew her, the more he liked her. Now, is Rose the only person in the world that he could have liked? Of course not. But she had the presence of mind to pull a fire alarm so that the idiots in the restarant would start to leave, she had the strength to stand up and save the Doctor's life while risking her own, and she had the curiosity to ask him who he was and when he wouldn't tell her, to try to find the answer on her own. That's more than enough to start on.

Oh, the Sarah thing. Well, I know some that didn't see it as a retcon, but they were kind of hardcore Sarahshippers to start with. Though theoretically the love for Rose itself implies a Grand Retcon where the Doctor probably got it on with a few of his ex-companions, the Sarah thing sort of sealed it.

Ah, I thought you meant some kind of S1/Rose retcon.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

In other words, if the Doctor doesn't see himself as
[..]
That's more than enough to start on.

*shrug* She's simply amazingly unexceptional with little to recommend her and a very noticable selfish streak. tGitF makes the Doctor look stupid in the heat of the moment, the Rose love makes him look like a fool with a midlife crisis.

Weirdly though I suspect that repeating the same pattern with the new girl is going to make the love for Rose look less WTF to me. Because the utterly insane thing right now is how much the series seems to want to pin to an extraordinarily average woman, treating her as special while also demanding that she be as generic as possible.

I dunno, it's like if Buffy suddenly hooked up with... Jonathan or Andrew or someone?

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I suspect the true difference between our points of view lies in this: I do think that Rose is exceptional. She's exceptionally brave, curious, and compassionate, and I think she represents a kind of humanity that is beautiful to see. We differ in that I see Rose as an exceptional woman with her moments of pettiness, and you seem to see her as basically a petty woman with some moments that you enjoy. I don't see loving her as innately foolish the way that you seem to.

And, in all honesty, I would not object to Buffy hooking up with, say, the Jonathan that we saw in Conversations With Dead People, when he evidenced a depth of soul and strength that I had not quite expected. Of course, she would not have because, much as I love her, the girl is shallow enough not to want to date short boys. Andrew, on the other hand, she doesn't really respect, so I can't see her dating him either.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

She's exceptionally brave, curious, and compassionate,

She shows those things sometimes, but it's never really to any degree I'd consider exceptional or even notable. No more compassionate than anyone else (less, in some instances, as the discontent with her this year implies), not amazingly curious. Brave I'd give even if it often works out badly. But mostly she's just so average that she never seems notable in any way.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

You must know a much better class of people than I do. I love people in general, but they can be ignorant and petty and foolish. Rose has consistently show compassion -- from the plumber in EotW to the kid in L&M and so many people in between. She's often the person who provides not just verbal emotional support, but physical support to the people that they're helping. She's so brave that it occasionally crosses into recklessness. And she's curious -- so many people don't question the world around them, don't ask questions, don't search out the places where things don't make sense.

Again, if most of the people that you know are braver, more curious, and more compassionate than Rose, then I envy you your acquaintances.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

You must know a much better class of people than I do.

Heh, no. She's okay. She's just not... vastly wonderful to me. Like I say I think it just treats her as more amazing than she is. She ticks off a list that she'd need to to in any way fill the narrative role ("kind, not too thick, bit of bravado") and yet other than that she's a bit flat.


Again, if most of the people that you know are braver, more curious, and more compassionate than Rose, then I envy you your acquaintances.

She is not remarkable within the universe she inhabits. Even in the real world, I am not that convinced she'd be notable. She wasn't in her own "real" world, which I suppose is the point. It wants her to be both average and exceptional and I while I can appreciate the craft that went into creating a character so stunningly average, I don't feel like that averageness can bear the weight of uniqueness that is placed upon her. She can't be both things, surely?

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I suppose that, in many ways, I identify with Rose as well as enjoy her as a character. I'm in a completely unremarkable job, but I don't feel that that makes me a completely unremarkable person. Not everyone is put into a position where they get the chance to show off the best parts of themselves, but because of her getting to know the Doctor, Rose can.

I certainly think that, yes, Rose was crafted the way she was because that's what this story needed -- a focal point, a person to represent to the Doctor what it was he was saving when he sacrificed his people. So, yes, she needs to both be 'every human' and also to be the potential of humanity. That's what she is, in the beginning of Rose, untapped potential. The Doctor gives her a chance to fulfill that potential in a way that she'd never been taught how, because she'd been surrounded by people who only expected life to be one average day after another. She'd never been taught to expect more, and yet she did ("That shop's been giving you airs and graces.") and when she was given a chance to get more out of life, she took it.

Which is why the idea offered by some that she should 'go back home' to her mother at the end of the season rather horrifies me.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Not everyone is put into a position where they get the chance to show off the best parts of themselves, but because of her getting to know the Doctor, Rose can.

Being of course the concept. I just never really liked her. I dunno, maybe it's just that it's a basic that she should grow into herself that I'm not all that moved when she does. That and the person she becomes is someone I don't like all that much.


Which is why the idea offered by some that she should 'go back home' to her mother at the end of the season rather horrifies me.

I think she probably will. Unless Jackie dies or something.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Being of course the concept. I just never really liked her. I dunno, maybe it's just that it's a basic that she should grow into herself that I'm not all that moved when she does. That and the person she becomes is someone I don't like all that much.

I guess I just really don't see how there's any way that they could have written Rose that would have made you happy. Her character's premise is 'shopgirl who discovers her own potential' and if that's a storyline that you just innately dislike, it's doomed for you (whereas 'elegant lady who is irresistible to men and even loved by those women that she is, of course, so much more beautiful and wonderful than' is a character premise that I dislike, so once I discovered in the episode that that's who Reinette was, she didn't have all that much chance with me).

Which is why the idea offered by some that she should 'go back home' to her mother at the end of the season rather horrifies me.

I think she probably will. Unless Jackie dies or something.

Rose going home really does sound like the most depressing ending in the world to me. If they do that to her, I probably wouldn't trust them enough to give series three a try.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

guess I just really don't see how there's any way that they could have written Rose that would have made you happy

*shrug* I could have liked her a lot more. Just it's all so fast and I have no PoV reason to latch onto her and, yeah, she's not a type I get that interested in.

Her character's premise is 'shopgirl who discovers her own potential' and if that's a storyline that you just innately dislike, it's doomed for you

It worked with me on Mickey for some reason. Sort of in the middle for Jack. I just... don't see Rose as really doing anything as great as her centrality might suggest. (And I realise that this may simply be that RTD is not that bothered about plot and activity and is more into emotional grounding, so if she's serving that purpose then on those terms it works.) She never... does anything that I wouldn't expect her to do as a matter of course. So it could well just be that her narrative role has no novelty value for me.


Rose going home really does sound like the most depressing ending in the world to me. If they do that to her, I probably wouldn't trust them enough to give series three a try.

Nothing else they can do with her really. I think she'll do something a bit fancy as well (investigate on her own like Sarah? Something like that) but it's homeward bound, I think.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*shrug* I could have liked her a lot more. Just it's all so fast and I have no PoV reason to latch onto her and, yeah, she's not a type I get that interested in.

How could you have liked her more? Can you give me any specific examples of what you'd have liked them to have done differently? I truly am honestly interested.

It worked with me on Mickey for some reason. Sort of in the middle for Jack. I just... don't see Rose as really doing anything as great as her centrality might suggest. (And I realise that this may simply be that RTD is not that bothered about plot and activity and is more into emotional grounding, so if she's serving that purpose then on those terms it works.) She never... does anything that I wouldn't expect her to do as a matter of course. So it could well just be that her narrative role has no novelty value for me.

Remind me of something -- you dislike Buffy and like Faith, I believe. What are your other likes and dislikes among the Buffy/Angel females?

Nothing else they can do with her really. I think she'll do something a bit fancy as well (investigate on her own like Sarah? Something like that) but it's homeward bound, I think.

You hate her character that much? To condemn her to something that she's flat-out told us is not enough for her?

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Wait, with caffeine in me I think it goes thus:

i. Rose is not remarkable enough for an emotional position that is sold as remarkable; the universe around her treats her as special when she has done almost nothing to earn it.
ii. S2 applies its harsh "specialectomy" by belatedly laying the groundwork of the Doctor's neediness and repeating pattern of fast, huge, highly-focussed love that wanders and latches onto anyone and anything regardless of what thing is actually like. Opening the worrying question of whether S1 was a lie or S2 is a back-pedal, but either way creating the problematic Ten/Rose that some felt let down by as a lessening of the love even though it wasn't.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

The only place in S2 where I felt like there was emotional dissonance was Girl. For me, everything else completely tracks from what we got in S1. Which is, again, part of why I have such an issue with the episode. It really doesn't feel as though it fits at all.

And, wow, we definitely disagree so much on Rose. I adored her from the beginning -- her attempts to make sense of the Doctor's world, her refusal to let go of finding out the truth and searching it out on her own, her ability point out the trees that the Doctor misses while he's looking for the forest, her incredible bravery in saving the Doctor, and the look on her face when she runs into the TARDIS -- I was in love with Rose Tyler before the first episode was over, and each episode has only made me love her more.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

It really doesn't feel as though it fits at all.

But GitF is like S2 in 45 minutes. The love, the loss, the loneliness. And it's Ten's Dalek in that it lays out his motivations and his way of looking at the world. And more than School Reunion it lays out what life will be like for him after Rose. Same as it always was, with a few happy memories and some sad ones. It's incredibly tragic in that, but with that resignation to the inevitability of time and change. "Everything ends" but with clockdroids and a horse.

I adored her from the beginning -- her attempts to make sense of the Doctor's world, her refusal to let go of finding out the truth and searching it out on her own, her ability point out the trees that the Doctor misses while he's looking for the forest, her incredible bravery in saving the Doctor, and the look on her face when she runs into the TARDIS

Her first episode I found her perfectly capable and potentially interesting. But I could never have loved her, and the universe loving her just made me go off her because it felt so absurd.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

But GitF is like S2 in 45 minutes. The love, the loss, the loneliness. And it's Ten's Dalek in that it lays out his motivations and his way of looking at the world. And more than School Reunion it lays out what life will be like for him after Rose. Same as it always was, with a few happy memories and some sad ones. It's incredibly tragic in that, but with that resignation to the inevitability of time and change. "Everything ends" but with clockdroids and a horse.

Yeah... don't see it. I can't even see where you see it. I see dissonance and inconsistency and something that attempts to detract from what the rest of the season is about. I see shoddy workmanship and a silly resolution. I see missing scenes that I would have enjoyed and scenes present that I found annoying and frustrating. Magic and illusion and nothing of substance.

Her first episode I found her perfectly capable and potentially interesting. But I could never have loved her, and the universe loving her just made me go off her because it felt so absurd.

The Doctor loved her. Jack loved her. Adam thought she was cute. Most people they encounter don't find her irritating (Queen Victoria being an exception), but I don't see where we're meant to think that the universe is in love with her, or even a substantial portion of it. Again, this may be a result of me not being anywhere near the apparently overwhelming media blitz, but I really don't see the 'everyone loves her' thing actually happening in the show.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I can't even see where you see it. I see dissonance and inconsistency and something that attempts to detract from what the rest of the season is about. I see shoddy workmanship and a silly resolution. I see missing scenes that I would have enjoyed and scenes present that I found annoying and frustrating. Magic and illusion and nothing of substance.

I think it has everything it needs. Mickey is indeed a problem, but then it couldn't really stand having to deal with that as well so we assume that Rose got over her moment of angst and tried to make the best of it. We have the Doctor acting so like himself that it hurts (and hurts other people within the story), we have the compression of time to reinforce School Reunion, and a horse. Thematically, it's like the whole season in one episode.

I... don't see how you don't see it.


The Doctor loved her. Jack loved her. Adam thought she was cute. Most people they encounter don't find her irritating (Queen Victoria being an exception), but I don't see where we're meant to think that the universe is in love with her, or even a substantial portion of it.

Like you just said, the Doctor's in love with her, Jack's in love with her, no one ever calls her on anything other than Mickey. The emphasis on all the love does make it strange that she above all other people, no matter how interesting or brave or intelligent or whatever, is pretty noticable. We even have Sarah saying "you're clever" when nothing she's seen would vastly suggest that. Which is a symptom the tell-don't-show the series sometimes falls into with everyone, but as the PoV character it's just more noticable on Rose.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I think it has everything it needs. Mickey is indeed a problem, but then it couldn't really stand having to deal with that as well so we assume that Rose got over her moment of angst and tried to make the best of it.

Except for how he's the odd man out again in the Cyberman two-parter. But hey, who needs emotional consistency when you have a horse.

We have the Doctor acting so like himself that it hurts (and hurts other people within the story),

Honestly, most of the Doctor's behavior in this episode feels so unlike him in the rest of the series. If this is the Doctor that we had in the rest of the series, I would have stopped watching long ago.

we have the compression of time to reinforce School Reunion,

For me, SR is part of why this episode feels so unneeded. It covers the same ground, but much more poorly.

Thematically, it's like the whole season in one episode.

*shrugs*

Honestly, I don't want to claim that I know the theme of the series until the finale airs. But, again, if Girl informs us about the way the Doctor will be in S3, I may end up quitting that season part of the way through, because I really did not like that Doctor.

Like you just said, the Doctor's in love with her, Jack's in love with her, no one ever calls her on anything other than Mickey.

And Gwen in The Unquiet Dead called her on being a little bit condescending. And Queen Victoria in Tooth and Claw. Reinette. Her alternate universe mom and dad in the Cyberman two-parter. And, yes, Mickey in Boomtown, who I do believe that we were supposed to take seriously. And there are quite a few people who didn't take to her -- Jabe was much more interested in the Doctor, she pissed off Cassandra, Adam turned out to be more interested in tech than in her, and Rodney in Bad Wolf called her stupid to her face.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Except for how he's the odd man out again in the Cyberman two-parter. But hey, who needs emotional consistency when you have a horse.

I think Rose tried and then lapsed when she got used to him being there. Otherwise he'd probably just have demanded to be sent home before they went anywhere else.


Honestly, most of the Doctor's behavior in this episode feels so unlike him in the rest of the series.

Really? I thought it totally fitted. He's impulsive, loved-up, funny, making it up as he goes along, existentially lonely. What does he do that's abnormal for him?

For me, SR is part of why this episode feels so unneeded. It covers the same ground, but much more poorly.

Nah, I think SR needs the reinforcement precisely because so many people seemed to come out of that one somehow convinced that "oh, it doesn't apply to Rose, it wouldn't be like that for her."


Honestly, I don't want to claim that I know the theme of the series until the finale airs. But, again, if Girl informs us about the way the Doctor will be in S3, I may end up quitting that season part of the way through, because I really did not like that Doctor.

I'm not sure what you think he was like in GitF as opposed to elsewhere?


(Here is a link thing to someone's meta on Rose as PoV/identification (http://drakyndra.livejournal.com/116622.html), cos it may make sense of our divergent views of her? I linked! That is like a footnote or something, yay!)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Really? I thought it totally fitted. He's impulsive, loved-up, funny, making it up as he goes along, existentially lonely. What does he do that's abnormal for him?

It's hard to explain the warning bells in my heart that just said, "Wrong, wrong, wrong," when I watched the episode. He just... didn't feel right. He said some of the right words, did some of the things that made me think, "right, that's the Doctor," but then... why didn't he care about taking the slow path? Why were his doors open when he was looking into Reinette's head? And, this isn't entirely his fault, but the only place I have not found, "Well, you've grown up," to be a creepy sentiment is Gigi. Everywhere else, it creeps me the hell out. Ooo, the child has grown breasts -- I am in lust. Just... creeps me out.

He just felt wrong, felt off and that made the whole episode feel off.

(Here is a link thing to someone's meta on Rose as PoV/identification, cos it may make sense of our divergent views of her? I linked! That is like a footnote or something, yay!)

I thought it was an interesting essay. She does hit on an important point -- Girl did leave me cold. And if that's how they plan to write the Doctor, post-Rose, then S3 may end up leaving me cold.

I sincerely hope that it doesn't -- I've liked the show, quite a lot. I've liked the earlier Who episodes that I've seen. But if I'm not having fun next season, I'll stop watching.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

why didn't he care about taking the slow path?

He's just stuck and making the best of it. He'd go nuts fairly quickly, but at that moment he's resigned to it. He's (wrongly) assuming the loneliness might be fixed a bit, which is messed up but there's worse places to be and at least he still has all his own teeth.

Why were his doors open when he was looking into Reinette's head?

She just nudged it. Like he says he doesn't make a habit of it and she's very keen on finding out and taking some initative and... he probably let her in a wee bit. Cos he's emo.

Everywhere else, it creeps me the hell out. Ooo, the child has grown breasts -- I am in lust. Just... creeps me out.

IT WAS HELLA CREEPY YES.


I thought it was an interesting essay. She does hit on an important point -- Girl did leave me cold. And if that's how they plan to write the Doctor, post-Rose, then S3 may end up leaving me cold.

I am still unsure what you mean by "if that's how they plan to write the Doctor"? But then like I said I thought he was very much himself in GitF. Well, himself in a rather magnified way, because it's an odd situation and he's trying to adapt.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

IT WAS HELLA CREEPY YES.

Something we can agree about!

And again, the dissonance in the Doctor feels so obvious to me that it's hard for me to explain in words that I haven't already used. Suffice to say, he felt different enough that he was a version of himself that I didn't like. And I suspect I would dislike that version regardless of what else is happening.