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butterflySo, three of the returning shows that I'm watching this year feature pairs of brothers working together (Numb3rs, Prison Break, and Supernatural). A large part of why I'm watching the shows are because they're about strong, interesting sibling relationships.
Which brings me to a point -- where are the women? Where are the really good brother-sister or sister-sister shows? Joss Whedon should not be the only person in television capable of creating an interesting brother-sister relationship that drives the narrative forward (if you do know of any shows with strong, interesting b-s or s-s relationships, I would be thrilled to know about them).
The interesting thing (to me) is how Simon-River actually follows the 'format' of all three cited brother-brother dramatic relationships -- the younger sibling is the smarter of the two, the older starts out as/tries to be the physical protector of the two. The most straight-up example of this dynamic is Numb3rs, where Charlie and Don are pretty much set in their roles -- I doubt that we'll ever see Charlie shoot a bad guy to save Don, instead, he always uses his brain to help save his big brother (I admit to the possibility of being wrong). Supernatural also tends more toward this side of the scale -- Sam is the victim more often than not, the researcher more often than not, the one who went to college (each of the younger siblings is spot-lit in their series for 'having gone away to an important school' -- Charlie to Princeton at thirteen, Sam to Stanford, River to the Academy at a young age, Michael to Princeton).
Prison Break and Firefly each take a slightly different approach. While it's implied in Prison Break that Lincoln took care of the younger Michael, in the series itself, Michael is the rescuer of his older brother (who does still try to protect Michael, though Michael has, so far, always had it enough under control not to need Lincoln's help). In Firefly, we start out with an older brother-protector/younger sibling-protected dynamic but, by the end of the series (and into the movie), the roles have pretty much equalized, with River being the more proactive fighter.
Apart from that, there are the other women in each series. Prison Break, by necessity, can only have a minimal number of female roles (this is also the only show where the format demands that the siblings share a gender, as the younger sibling needed to end up in the same prison as the older sibling). Even so, they do have an important woman in each of the individual plotlines, though it must be noted that the two women on the 'good' side also serve double-time as love interests. Despite that, the show does give both Veronica and Doctor Tancredi lives beyond the brothers -- Veronica is a lawyer who grew up with the boys, had a potential future completely separate from them before she started trying to save Lincoln's life, and has gotten to have many scenes where she is the primary mover. Tancredi also has a back-story that got highlighted in the big flashback episode and has her own demons that drive her -- demons that aren't guy-related at all. Though love interests, the show is careful to make them more than that.
And you can't forget the other two important female characters -- Brinker and the Vice President. Both strong antagonistic characters who have their own agendas. All in all, considering how PB is limited by its setting, it does quite well with the portrayal of women, I think. It's also had a few strong minor female characters (Nika and Leticia come to mind).
Numb3rs has two female characters in the main cast -- Megan and Amita. Amita tends to fall more into the 'traditional love interest' area. Megan and Larry share an interest in each other, but Megan is not written as if she were invented to be Larry's love interest. It feels a lot more natural with their characters. In the first season, the character of Terry felt much more like a 'love interest' character than Megan does, so I'm pleased with that change in the show.
All in all, though, Numb3rs is neither remarkable nor remarkably distressing in its portrayal of female characters.
Supernatural, on the other hand... I really love the show. It makes me jump, I adore the brothers, and they've had a few good, strong moments with their women. But the vast majority of women on the show exist to be rescued or to die as victims. There are no strong, reoccurring female characters (the one that did exist, Meg, died at the end of the first season). I... hope for better from them in their sophomore year.
Firefly, of course, had a main cast that was almost perfectly split down the middle in regards to gender, with a wide variety of 'types', as well as several strong 'one-shot' female characters and one strong character that was shaping up to be reoccurring.
Have I mentioned recently that I miss having Joss Whedon do television?
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:12 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:14 pm (UTC)And, ooo! Your icon reminded me about Joan of Arcardia! That had some great sibling-drama-stuff in it. I should get that on dvd.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:42 pm (UTC)SFU always throws me, because I keep forgetting that Brenda's female. Because before I saw the show, I read that one of the brothers was gay, and when... blast, I can't remember his name, when he macked on Brenda, I totally thought we were going to find out that she was a drag-queen. It always takes me a minute to remember that that's not true.
I disliked the pilot of Alias enough to not ever want to watch the show, but I'm curious about the possible interesting sibling relationship.
I have never seen Judging Amy -- is it worth checking out?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:51 pm (UTC)Plus the sister rocks.
Oh, I miss that show.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:37 pm (UTC)*adds Wonderfalls to enormous list*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:54 pm (UTC)There is much I love in Judging Amy, and if you like JoA you'll probably at least enjoy it. Tyne Daly kicks ass, and one of the brothers is completely awesome. (Naturally, he isn't a regular after the first couple of seasons, at which point I stopped being a regular viewer. *le sigh*) It's one of my top get-this-out-on-DVD-now picks.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:39 pm (UTC)Judging Amy definitely needs to come out on dvd -- then I would be able to netflix it to see if I like it.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:25 pm (UTC)With the Supernatural team, I honestly don't believe anyone there is the least bit capable of writing female characters, and at least they stuck to what they were good at -- nuanced male characters. I really loved some of the female side characters in the show. I love Cassie and I love Jess. I even loved Sam's little hookup girl in Provenance, Sarah, but I loved them because of the idea of them, and I got the feeling if these guys tried to write them long term, I would end up annoyed by the writers -- not the wonderful actresses. The fact that they are considering changing that in the show's sophmore year (and they are) actually concerns me. I won't go into it here, in case you're spoiler sensitive, but... Eh. In the case of Supernatural, at least, I dunno. :(
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:37 pm (UTC)I've actually liked pretty much all of the female characters who have appeared on Supernatural, but I do think that the writing of them could be better. I agree with you that the actresses have all been good (especially Sarah).
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:41 pm (UTC)I will definitely agree with you on that. Even in the case of one-off female characters, I think they got better -- Sarah was pretty well done, I thought, even if I despaired when she didn't go for a fireplace poker (like Sam did). A truly feisty girl would have grabbed a poker herself.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:44 pm (UTC)Thank you for being concerned. That's very considerate and sweet of you.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 08:34 pm (UTC)I haven't thought about it in years. I wonder if they have it on dvd.
*checks*
Sadly, it does not appear to exist on dvd.
*mourns*
keep. forgetting. to log on.
Date: 2006-08-23 08:33 pm (UTC)Re: keep. forgetting. to log on.
Date: 2006-08-23 08:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 09:09 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-23 11:32 pm (UTC)Also, there's a rumor that Martha (the new companion on Doctor Who) will have a sister. I don't know if it's true though.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:45 pm (UTC)I did used to watch that show and I enjoyed it... stopped when they traded out a sister for... what was the new girl? Half-sister? Cousin? Anyway, when that happened.
Also, there's a rumor that Martha (the new companion on Doctor Who) will have a sister. I don't know if it's true though.
Hmm. I wonder if they'll go the 'family' route with DW again, having done so much with Rose and her parents. Then again, parents and sisters aren't the same, so it could be different enough to be fresh.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:54 pm (UTC)And I think RTD wants to keep the family aspect of the show, so they have an excuse to keep visiting modern day London. Plus, he does family stuff very well. And you're right- a sister is very different from a mother. I have pretty big hopes for next season.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-24 12:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:45 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-24 04:14 am (UTC)Sam went to Stanford.
Some of my favorite brother/sister teams have been on Roswell, American Dreams, and Everwood. Nia mentioned Alias s4 as a good sister/sister show, and I agree. There was also that show Sisters way back. You can't forget 90210 (Brandon and Brenda!) or Melrose Place (Jane and Sydney!) either.
But the vast majority of women on the show exist to be rescued or to die as victims.
I see this complaint all the time, and honestly, all the men -- including the two leads -- exist to be victims too. No one is ever safe from peril on that show.
I think they actually try to have a woman who is more than eye candy in each episode to balance things out, and I've liked each one except Cassie (and only b/c the actress was awful). Meanwhile, I can't remember the names or faces of any of the one-ep guys from s1.
That said, it would have been cool if Dean and Sam had a sister, maybe one who shunned the family business at first, then ended up joining them. A cousin could still work. Someone platonic, b/c who's going to hunt with them across the country?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:54 pm (UTC)Ha. Thank you! Though I don't see why he couldn't go to Princeton, like every other little brother in the world. Trying to make my life difficult, I suppose.
In all honestly, what I'm searching for are brother/sister or sister/sister relationships that are portrayed as... epic as Dean/Sam or Michael/Lincoln. But that may be too much to ask -- until recently, there weren't even brother/brother shows with that kind of powerfully-drawn emotion.
That said, it would have been cool if Dean and Sam had a sister, maybe one who shunned the family business at first, then ended up joining them. A cousin could still work. Someone platonic, b/c who's going to hunt with them across the country?
That's just it, actually. It was the creator's choice to make the only two main characters on the show male. At this point, after we've learned the rough sketch of how Sam and Dean grew up, it would feel odd to say, "and all this time, there was another sibling that we forgot to mention in Season One". The creator chose to have a mostly-male palatte. And there isn't...
I praised Prison Break for its female characters in part because the basic set-up of the show (prison, which is, as far as I know, pretty much always gender-segregated) means that a huge numbers of characters must be male, but they put in strong female characters in lots and lots of places -- even as early as the first episode, the tattoo artist was originally going to be male, but was cast female because the actress made such a strong impression. And hearing that story from the creator of the show made me think that I could trust him to be willing to cast gender-blind when the occasion warranted. I haven't seen Supernatural writing any characters who just happened to be female, not yet anyway, but instead always writing female characters when they do.
If that makes sense.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-24 05:05 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 10:57 pm (UTC)Is Big Love good, then? I haven't really heard anyone talking about it.
And, dude, Frannie! I love Frannie. Although I often want to smack RayV for the way that he treats her. I'd hate to have him as a brother.
Thanks for the list. I will check into the shows on that that I haven't seen.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-24 05:16 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 11:02 pm (UTC)I have no idea why your comment made me think of this.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-24 05:27 am (UTC)God do I ever miss Joss.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 11:04 pm (UTC)That's normal enough for a fantasy show, having the other characters reflect the main character as a way of providing background and insight with making the leads too introspective.
So really, for that show at least, I can see why women are such...foreign things. I don't know if that's been done on purpose though.
It's the choice to make the family without a woman that is... interesting to me, in how common a choice it is. And mothers are so often the ones that are dead in stories.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-26 01:34 pm (UTC)The Palladinos (the people behind Gilmore Girls) apparently have a show in production for Fox that's about a pair of sisters.
I totally agree that American Dreams and Judging Amy were some of the best displays of siblings on tv.
There used to be that show Life Goes On...
Notice how no one has even mentioned 7th Heaven? (Tee hee!)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-30 11:06 pm (UTC)It really does sound as though I should check out American Dreams and Judging Amy.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-26 06:59 pm (UTC)But I don't think the problem is a lack of source texts; I think the problem is that the majority of fandom is simply less likely to be fannish about a show featuring, say, sisters interacting. Or, you know, women in general. If you're watching because of strong male characters that hit your kink, a brother-sister duo (or, say, sisters) aren't going to do it for you, y'know?
...Not that any of my main fandoms at the moment have strong sibling relationships as the central focus (although I'd argue that on VMars, Lilly/Duncan- and kind of Duncan/Veronica- were fascinating, complex ones, as were Meredith's interactions with her half-sister on Grey's), but. I also feel like, fannishly, those are less thrown in my face and thus I am less likely to be exposed to it, y'know? If I'm not seeing a lot of women, I'm not going to see a lot of women who happen to be related.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-08-27 02:13 am (UTC)And a whole lot of fandom (especially, you know, slash fandom) is all about the male-male interaction.
So, yes, very good point.