Angel 5x20 -- The Girl in Question
May. 5th, 2004 10:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
butterflyIt was, of course, very important that neither of our guys actually got to talk to Buffy. This wasn't about Buffy the person, this was about Buffy as Lost Love.
It was about Angel and about Spike. It was about chasing lost dreams so hard that you utterly ignore the here-and-now.
And there were, of course, two girls in question -- Buffy in the one plotline and Fred in the other. Both marked by the absence in their appearance. As so much has been this season.
Buffy means 'good' to Spike and Angel in the same way that Fred meant it to Wesley. And in both cases, the boys realize that not having all of the girl in question isn't enough. Trapping Buffy in a box or controlling her mind isn't the same as Buffy wanting to be there. Illyria playing Fred being loving is not the same as Fred loving (though wow, they went beyond even my wildest hopes on the Illyria unwillingly caring for Wes front). The girls in question can't be trapped in a box or faked. They aren't just images and mannerisms, but irreplacable individuals.
I must say that Buffy? In Rome? Dancing in clubs and having the time of her life? This is something that makes me happy. I only ever wanted her to be happy. She's getting the Immortal Thing out of her system (which means that if she ever ends up with Angel or Spike or both, it won't be about the Mysteriously Morally-Ambiguous Thing).
This episode is in the vein of other funny Buffyverse episodes like The Zeppo and Storyteller where you either enjoy that sort of humor or you don't. It's about flipping the show inside out and seeing what it's like when the drama is played for laughs. It's about laughing with the show, with the genre and with the staples and with the sheer silliness that any fantasy has. It's meta-humor -- an example in another show would be Burning Down the House in due South (the reverse is the meta-drama, like Normal Again was).
And even in all of those, there is a core emotional journey that isn't played for laughs. In The Zeppo, it's about Xander realizing his own value. Storyteller is all about Andrew understanding the pain that he's caused. Burning Down the House is about the fundamental nature of change. They use the humor to illuminate the path.
I love meta. I love exploring the inner and outer worlds of the show. Analogy and meaning and place and thought. I love all of that. So I love any episode that explores those things. And The Girl in Question did an excellent job of using humor and drama to explore lost loves and illusions.
The questions posed by Illyria -- Isn't this what you wanted? The appearance of Fred, her mannerisms? That's the same type of thing that Angel and Spike play around with at the end -- finding a way to have Buffy as theirs. They're smart enough to realize, as is Wesley, that you can't. It's not about wanting... a shell. Not about forcing someone to stay in place for you. It's about someone choosing to be with you, loving you with their whole heart.
To go back to Escher, Spike and Angel spend the episode climbing stairs that loop back into themselves (Ascending and Descending).
God, I'm adoring this season. And I'm really glad that I was able to write about this episode. I adored last week as well but I just couldn't... I couldn't think. This episode made my brain go back online when it comes to Angel. It reminded me about the dangers of chasing love and that something being over doesn't mean that the good things never were. And that the memories do last.
It was like ME was saying, "We love you, but don't chase after us once the show is gone. Don't do that to yourself. Don't trap us in a box or dress things up to pretend that everything is the same. The world changes and we have to deal. It's all right to let us go when this is over."
It's one of the themes of the season, as summed up by Cordy -- take what you can get and do your best with it. World is the way it is -- heroes fight that, but you have to start with reality as it is. Chasing illusions just ends with you standing in the same place you started out in.
To change something, it must first be accepted.
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(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-06 12:10 pm (UTC)Perhaps. I read Illyria's closing "as you wish" as far more a threat than a capitulation or a sign of caring. It's hard to tell though - Amy Acker did a wonderful job with the material.
It's not about wanting... a shell. Not about forcing someone to stay in place for you. It's about someone choosing to be with you, loving you with their whole heart.
That would resonate with me a bit more if I hadn't seen S7. Wasn't that what Spike was supposed to have learned from S6, from his abusing Buffy because she didn't love him... And isn't that why Angel let her go in the first place?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-06 06:34 pm (UTC)Considering their current 'relationship', I doubt that Illyria will actually let go of anything that hits Wes that hard. For me, it's both threat and promise.
That would resonate with me a bit more if I hadn't seen S7. Wasn't that what Spike was supposed to have learned from S6, from his abusing Buffy because she didn't love him... And isn't that why Angel let her go in the first place?
But both of them acted out of a desire to still have her love them. In S7, Spike learns to value the trust that Buffy placed in him, but he's still willing to stand in place for her. And Angel never let Buffy go -- he left, but he's never moved on (dreams often show truth -- saying Buffy's name in Awakening implied to me that he was far from over her).
(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-06 06:46 pm (UTC)Part of the problem for me, in that respect, is the curse. He can move away from Buffy, but he can't really move on toward anything without endangering his soul, and knowing that it would be a drag on her life. He can move away or send away, but can't move on -toward- anything. The best option he has is running in place with "acceptable" happiness. All of which, he's known and been dealing with (IMHO relatively well, considering) for years.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-07 07:44 am (UTC)The curse is a hell of a thing to live with. It's his punishment, though -- and it fits with the vampire that Angel portrays (as does Spike choosing a soul fit with his).
(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-15 06:47 pm (UTC)Very true-- he's come a long way since his obsessive stalker days in Season Five, but still, learning to be his own man is a slow process even for someone as skilled at change and adaption as Spike. To me, in any case, loving someone doesn't necessarily exclude the possibility of getting on with one's life and love-- even if it's of a different quality.
And Angel never let Buffy go -- he left, but he's never moved on (dreams often show truth -- saying Buffy's name in Awakening implied to me that he was far from over her).
Exactly. There's more, tying in with my comments on Angel, but I will hopefully get to that later on.
As always, an awesome review.
I love reading your reviews
Date: 2004-05-06 12:41 pm (UTC)I loved this episode. Andrew had a very good point, Angel will only end up with Buffy if he moves on. He isn't done baking yet. The ligh tbulb went out in his oven and he hasn't noticed that the cookies are still raw. He has just been sitting around waiting for Buffy to get baked, thinking he is all baked.
I liked the Immortal. Liam raised to infinity. This isn't the kind of guy that Buffy is going to confide in. This isn't the long haul guy. This is just something to bake with and have lots of fun doing it.
"The Girl in Question." The question shouldn't be the girls. It should be themselves. I think both Angel/Spike and Wesley were able to move on more this episode and bring the question back to the Guy in Question. I liked how Spike wanted to freeze Buffy and Angel said it wouldn't work. It would pretty much defeat the whole Buffy baking. You freeze things when they are ready. No one is ready for much of anything yet. That doesn't mean that they don't keep baking. The Immortal and Nina are good for this.
I also like how Gunn was focused on the head. Mission is back on track. Now time for the rest of them to get their acts together.
The Buffyverse will continue in some form or another. I like Joss' comics. No Dutchess required for those.
Thank you very much.
Date: 2004-05-06 06:38 pm (UTC)That's beautiful. Thank you.
I loved this episode. Andrew had a very good point, Angel will only end up with Buffy if he moves on. He isn't done baking yet. The ligh tbulb went out in his oven and he hasn't noticed that the cookies are still raw. He has just been sitting around waiting for Buffy to get baked, thinking he is all baked.
Exactly -- he says in Chosen that he's not getting any older. That's part of the problem, sweetheart.
I liked the Immortal. Liam raised to infinity. This isn't the kind of guy that Buffy is going to confide in. This isn't the long haul guy. This is just something to bake with and have lots of fun doing it.
And apparently he's a lot of fun to... bake with. I like the idea of Buffy getting to have tons of fun.
"The Girl in Question." The question shouldn't be the girls. It should be themselves. I think both Angel/Spike and Wesley were able to move on more this episode and bring the question back to the Guy in Question. I liked how Spike wanted to freeze Buffy and Angel said it wouldn't work. It would pretty much defeat the whole Buffy baking. You freeze things when they are ready. No one is ready for much of anything yet. That doesn't mean that they don't keep baking. The Immortal and Nina are good for this.
Exactly, yes.
I also like how Gunn was focused on the head. Mission is back on track. Now time for the rest of them to get their acts together.
Mission is finally back on track. And he's wearing his street-clothes, his action clothes. Good things.
The Buffyverse will continue in some form or another. I like Joss' comics. No Dutchess required for those.
Even if the comics stop, the Buffyverse will last as long as someone loves it. It'll last for a long time.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-06 03:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-06 06:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-06 04:30 pm (UTC)The questions posed by Illyria -- Isn't this what you wanted? The appearance of Fred, her mannerisms? That's the same type of thing that Angel and Spike play around with at the end -- finding a way to have Buffy as theirs. They're smart enough to realize, as is Wesley, that you can't. It's not about wanting... a shell. Not about forcing someone to stay in place for you. It's about someone choosing to be with you, loving you with their whole heart.
And you tie together the two storylines so well. Brava.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-06 06:40 pm (UTC)I'm just having so much fun thinking about the episode. It's a laugh and a cry. Side-splitting and heart-breaking. For me, tragedy often works better when surrounded by humor.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-07 02:45 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-05-07 07:45 am (UTC)And yeah, change is life. Each moment is just a moment, life is in the constant movement to the next stage.