Stargate -- Alternate Realities
Jul. 18th, 2004 08:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
butterflyIn There But for the Grace of God, Alt!Daniel Jackson said 'no' to the Stargate program. In Point of View, neither Sam nor Kawalsky have even heard of Daniel.
In both of their worlds, Earth became overrun and Teal'c was the one leading the charge.
The missing link, of course, is Daniel marrying Sha're. It was seeing Sha're's implantation that seemed to finally push Teal'c over the edge, leading to his trust of O'Neill and denouncement of Apophis. Without Daniel meeting and falling for Sha're, no team would have gone to Chu'lak and wouldn't have met Teal'c at his most vulnerable moment.
It's interesting to speculate where the divides in each reality were. In The Devil You Know, we see the moment that Sam pinpoints what made it possible for her to think of joining the military. It's possible that one of the differences in reality is that in those realities, Jacob didn't reach out to his daughter that day, and they stayed estranged. It's interesting that despite not joining the military, Sam still joins the Stargate program.
In TBftGoG, Catherine is the one who makes the Stargate work. In PoV, it's Sam. In TBftGoF, Jack destroys Abydos. He never cares for Skaara or the Abydonian people. In PoV, it's also likely that he destroyed Abydos, since we're given no information to the contrary. In both realities, Sam is the one who attempts to bring him back from the edge after his son's death and his divorce. In both realities, she's in the position of cilivian consultant. They probably met when Daniel meets Jack in the movie (in PoV, she says that she made the gate work 'four years ago', so it'd be a little after Daniel doing it, time-wise, I'd guess). It's possible that she went to Abydos with Jack O'Neill in one or both of the realities. In both cases, she formed a romantic relationship with Jack O'Neill, probably prompted in part by shared experiences. It's also possible that she reminded him of Sara and he became more quickly attached to her because of that (they do look a bit alike). We don't know if she ever knew everything about Sara and Charlie -- she doesn't mention them as 'proof' of who she is, like Daniel does in TBftGoG.
In both realities, Jack dies. In TBftGoG, he's buying Daniel time. In PoV, he's buying his people time. We don't know what Jack was like in the PoV reality -- we have only the words of the broken-hearted widow and one picture. In TBftGoG, he's much harder than 'our' Jack. Abydos and Daniel are what healed him in our universe -- he saved them, saved Daniel and Skaara. Lost his wife, lived a year alone, but bounced back with life and wit and determination. We don't know if the Jacks in TBftGoG or PoV ever retired after the Abydos mission, but I would judge it unlikely, as he's a General in TBftGoG. Plus, it's always seemed like a big part of the reason he retired was to protect Daniel and Abydos -- he lied in his report and then got out of the way so that people wouldn't be asking him the questions that they do end up asking him in CotG.
The biggest team difference is the complete absence of Daniel Jackson. In TBftGoG, it's likely that he's dead. In PoV, we have literally no information to work with, though it's possible that he was approached by Catherine and declined the invitation, as there is much about the two worlds that's similiar. One of the primary differences is that in TBftGoG, Catherine figures it out, while in PoV, she doesn't, likely gets pushed off the program the way she was in 'our' reality, and Sam figured it out.
Of course, it still took Sam and/or Catherine years to figure out what took Daniel two weeks. Not that I'm at all gloating about the brilliance of Daniel.
He's just such a lateral thinker. I love watching him figure out a problem -- his mind is fun. I mean, after watching most of the seasons, I like Sam well enough, but though she's brilliant, she doesn't leapfrog the way he does (Solitudes is one of the episodes that points this out -- I can't help but feel that in that same situation, Daniel would have at least tried dialing a different, but safe planet, instead of solely focusing on making the connection to Earth work.). Plus, her soldier half wins out over her scientific half more often as the series wears on.
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(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 04:09 am (UTC)I think Daniel is such a treasure because he has such a vast quantity of information stored in his brain, indexed quite handily by having investigated and theorized about possible connections in the course of his civilian life. Sam, on the other hand, would not have that wealth of knowledge of ancient civilizations (being an astrophysicist doesn't leave a whole lot of room for that).
And it's true for everyone - if your only tool is a hammer, all your problems appear to be nails. I think Sam falls prey to that more often. Daniel, lacking a hammer of any sort, both sees the problem more accurately and is more creative with his solutions.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:01 am (UTC)Right. He finds a theory, tests it, and if it doesn't work, he changes the boundaries and looks for an altogether different approach. He approachs it from a new angle (when he comes back from ascension, one of the first things that he does is say that his translation was wrong -- Daniel doesn't ever have a problem admitting he's wrong about stuff like that, which helps him).
I think Daniel is such a treasure because he has such a vast quantity of information stored in his brain, indexed quite handily by having investigated and theorized about possible connections in the course of his civilian life. Sam, on the other hand, would not have that wealth of knowledge of ancient civilizations (being an astrophysicist doesn't leave a whole lot of room for that).
Very true. Plus, he's got the most amazing ability to learn other languages -- probably learnt several as a child, which would help with learning new ones later in life. By the end of season two, he says that he speaks twenty-three languages, and since he's suggesting that he use them for talking to someone on Earth, I'm guessing that he's not counting any of the alien languages that he's learnt.
And, of course, there's the Serpent's Venom where he translates something in a matter of minutes that the Tok'ra have been struggling with for years. He's can speak fluent Goa'uld (Summit/Last Stand). He picks up languages damn fast. And that's partly, I think, because he's so good at sussing at cult
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 05:02 am (UTC)I hate it when it cuts me off.
And, of course, there's the Serpent's Venom where he translates something in a matter of minutes that the Tok'ra have been struggling with for years. He's can speak fluent Goa'uld (Summit/Last Stand). He picks up languages damn fast. And that's partly, I think, because he's so good at sussing at cultures -- he can figure out words from context and use that to help himself figure out more of the culture, which helps him with the language and so it goes.
And it's true for everyone - if your only tool is a hammer, all your problems appear to be nails. I think Sam falls prey to that more often. Daniel, lacking a hammer of any sort, both sees the problem more accurately and is more creative with his solutions.
It probably helps that he's had such an outsider's perspective all his life -- he was orphaned around age eight and even then, he seemed to travel with his parents, who were Egyptologists. After that, he spent his childhood in foster care. He was a brilliant archeologist (his intellectual arrogance shows up now and again -- he's very aware of how smart he is and will not back down unless given a good reason) whose theories got him laughed out of a job and his old life, but who never wavered in his belief in his ability to figure out a closer truth.
*blinks*
Well, that became quite a long thing there.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 08:44 am (UTC)It probably helps that he's had such an outsider's perspective all his life -- he was orphaned around age eight and even then, he seemed to travel with his parents, who were Egyptologists. After that, he spent his childhood in foster care. He was a brilliant archeologist (his intellectual arrogance shows up now and again -- he's very aware of how smart he is and will not back down unless given a good reason) whose theories got him laughed out of a job and his old life, but who never wavered in his belief in his ability to figure out a closer truth.
The only thing that bugs me about his archeology career is that against all odds he was right. I mean, it's one thing saying the pyramids weren't tombs (not the most accepted theory, but not, like, completely insane) but... wtf aliens? Based on what, Danny, you freak?!
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 02:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 02:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 11:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 07:18 pm (UTC)And they were all, "Then who, smartypants!"
And he was all, "Don't know! What matters is it wasn't the Egyptians! We need new theories!"
And they were all, "Fah, whatever."
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 11:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 08:41 am (UTC)Of course, it still took Sam and/or Catherine years to figure out what took Daniel two weeks. Not that I'm at all gloating about the brilliance of Daniel.
Though in all fairness to Sam, in the movie the thing holding them back was a linguistic/symbolic issue, which is his field and not hers.
I mean, after watching most of the seasons, I like Sam well enough, but though she's brilliant, she doesn't leapfrog the way he does (Solitudes is one of the episodes that points this out -- I can't help but feel that in that same situation, Daniel would have at least tried dialing a different, but safe planet, instead of solely focusing on making the connection to Earth work.). Plus, her soldier half wins out over her scientific half more often as the series wears on.
Of those two, I totally reckon Daniel is closer to being "the genius". Sam just doesn't... she's such a workmanlike thinker, and when she *does* have leaps of logic, it's usually from someone else pointing it out. (McKay's thing about the piano and her being all l33t is the biggest wank ever.) Plus, hello, he thought of the stellar drift thing? (Though, really, it's mainly that the writers can't write science and scientists for toffee.)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 07:21 pm (UTC)In all fairness to Sam, true enough.
Of those two, I totally reckon Daniel is closer to being "the genius". Sam just doesn't... she's such a workmanlike thinker, and when she *does* have leaps of logic, it's usually from someone else pointing it out. (McKay's thing about the piano and her being all l33t is the biggest wank ever.) Plus, hello, he thought of the stellar drift thing? (Though, really, it's mainly that the writers can't write science and scientists for toffee.)
Hee, one of the things that I love about the stellar drift thing is Daniel saying, "I was right?" in tones of mild disbelief.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-19 09:52 pm (UTC)See, for all that it's not his field, I find it less insane that an archeologist would know that (cos, hell, I know that) than that an astrophysicist wouldn't. Where did she get her degree. Teletubby University wtf?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-20 08:25 am (UTC)Though, honestly, I can't imagine how he could have been wrong -- there are thirty-ish symbols on that thing. Did Sam think perhaps that it was a combination lock of sorts? Once Daniel hit on the 'constellations' connection, it should be, well, obvious that the stargate can go other places.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-07-20 01:16 pm (UTC)