(no subject)

[butterfly]

This isn't something that any of the writers who read my list probably need to hear, but I'm venting a little.

Dude, is it so hard to write in culture? It's part of writing in character. And Jack O'Neill isn't going to say that he's 'bloody lucky', though he might say that he's 'damn lucky'.

There are a couple of less obvious British sentence constructions that bother me so much more now that I know why they're out of place (yay for Queer as Folk UK) -- the 'have done' construction being one that I've seen more than once in Stargate fic. Daniel Jackson isn't going to say, "Might have done". He'd leave off the 'done', or just go with another word or phrase.

A character comes with a gender, a culture, and pre-existing biases. Ignoring those does make me doubt how much of the source that the writer's seen and therefore how valid their fictional conclusions are.

Comments

[amireal.livejournal.com]

*kisses your feet*

I've been making this complaint for YEARS.

There was one story I read where everyone in the SGC had a texan dialect.

Daniel Jackson would not say, "I 'reckon"

*twitch*

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*smacks head*

'reckon'?

Eeep, man. Eeep.

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

*Pets you*

I very much agree. I try to remind myself that some people don't seem to have the same ear for dialogue that others do, and that they're probably doing the best they can, but... Eeeeesh.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Eeeeesh is right. And maybe this is expecting too much, but couldn't they at least tell that they aren't that good at that part of things. I know what my weaknesses are, writing-wise.

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

Some people have more of an ear for languages than others, and more historical knowledge than others, and have read more period/cultural literature than others.

I have a very good friend whose dialogue I edit heavily when we co-write. She's read the HP books forward and backward probably even more than I have, and she has the best take on Alastor Moody I've ever seen. But HP is the only British fandom she's a part of. Everything else she's into is anime or children's literature, and so while her dialogue is perfectly in character with respect to content, it's my job to go through it and remove things like "Yeah."

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I do understand that, definitely. I think that your friend is doing just the right thing -- if you don't have that ear, get help.

Of course, with Harry Potter, we have the additional difficulty of the books being partially 'translated' into American English. It messes with the flow of the books, at least it does for me. I can tell where they've screwed with the words and phrasing (partly because I do read quite a bit of Brit and faux-Brit lit).

[zoetrope.livejournal.com]

A character comes with a gender, a culture, and pre-existing biases. Ignoring those does make me doubt how much of the source that the writer's seen and therefore how valid their fictional conclusions are.

The very reason I've almost abandones HP fic in general, and Marauders fic in particular.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, most HP is... yeah. There are a couple of authors that do really well, but I suspect that they're Brits.

And HP is worse than most because of the weirdness of having an 'american' translation. Very annoying.

[ljs-lj.livejournal.com]

Oh, god, yes. And don't get me started on the Britishisms creeping into Americans' mouths. The first time someone says "Mum", I'm likely to stop reading.

--LJ

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, most American characters saying 'Mum' is canonically out of character (because in many cases, we do know what they call their mother).

[ljs-lj.livejournal.com]

It's not so much a problem in SG1 fandom (as far as I've noticed), but I had to learn how not to cringe everytime someone had Buffy or Willow or (gadzooks!) Xander calling their mother "Mum".

--LJ

[nova25.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree. Even if the specific words aren't always right, there are speech patterns that can be captured from studying canon. I suppose there's some case for debate with characters like Wesley-- I think that he's picked up the odd idiom/turn of phrase here or there. All the same, he wouldn't be a full-fledged American, as I've seen in a few fics. *shudder*

OTOH, there's only so much you can do with slang-- I read quite a bit of British literature and have all the "translation sites" bookmarked but I still have only lived in America. I was writing a HP fic and had done some pretty solid research for slang differences, and still got criticized for a few slipups. Too much pickiness, especially when I did go to an effort, makes me rather cross. ;)

[ceridwen_amyed]

Dude, you never got back to me about the Brit betaing thing I was going to do! :P Lemme know if you ever want any help... I might ask for some help with American betaing... ;)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Right -- as long as you keep them in character, I probably won't notice a little slip here or there. Though I can usually spot a Brit author in an American-based fandom by phrasage if nothing else.

It's just when you see things that you'd think would be obvious -- like the use of 'bloody' when not referring to the sticky red stuff.

[ceridwen_amyed]

Daniel Jackson isn't going to say, "Might have done". He'd leave off the 'done', or just go with another word or phrase.


See, as a Brit, I had no idea about that phrasing... Thanks for that. :)

It's just so lazy to write a character with no consideration for the cultural background... I always make an effort with my non-Brit (i.e. not HP) fandoms, even trying to spell words like "colour" "color" because that's how the character thinks. Course, it doesn't always work out, but at least I try. Authors who don't even do that make me hit the back button.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the first time that I ever heard that phrasing used was Vince on Queer as Folk UK (Adorable man). This is also the man who taught me about Brits leaving 'the' off of, say, a sentence like, "Going to the hospital". I had no clue that y'all did that until then.

Gay sex is educational.

[ceridwen_amyed]

Gay sex is educational.


Man, I haven't seen QaF for so long... Must watch some. For... educational purposes. ;)

[elz.livejournal.com]

Amen. And I keep wondering if Stargate has a particularly high number of British fans/fanfic writers or if it just bothers me more than it did with Buffy, where there were at least some nominally British characters.

Of course, it's not really any better when Daniel sounds like an American teenage girl, but I suppose that's a slightly different issue.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

There do seem to be more British SG writers, I think.

True, age and gender are also important to any character. But in that case, there's more hope that the writer will grow out of it.