(no subject)

[butterfly]

So, I'm watching my BtVS tapes to make sure that I have the right labels and...

I just saw the end of Lovers Walk and my heart broke into a thousand tiny pieces. Xander and Willow screw up so badly and then you have Buffy and Angel...

Buffy: "What I want from you, I can never have. You don't need me to take care of you anymore, so I'm going to go."
Angel: "I don't accept that."
Buffy: "You have to."
Angel: "There's got to be some way we can still see each other ."
Buffy: "There is. Tell me that you don't love me."

And, of course, he can't. So she walks away.

*sniffles as her OMG! Tragic Love! button is hit*

It didn't hurt like that the first time around. I wasn't at all invested in Angel's character, so I didn't care much. Enough.

ETA: OMG! The mood icon is so appropriate!

Comments

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

*Sniffle*

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

The ending is so sad! Even the Spike part is sad, as I know that Dru will reject him! Again!

[jic]

Awww!

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

You must definitely rewatch BtVS/AtS with me when we've watched all of SG-1.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

I always like the way this gets inverted in As You Were, where she comes to Spike and says "Tell me that you love me". In both cases what she actually wants isn't what she asks for.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Oh! I love that. For some reason, I was thinking about that moment, but I hadn't made the connection. Thank you!

[azdak.livejournal.com]

My pleasure :-)

[spacedoutlooney.livejournal.com]

What's interesting is that she's not taking responsibility for her own feelings either time.

If she could control her own feelings, then it shouldn't matter what the other person felt.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I don't think that she's failing to take responsibility for her feelings in Lovers Walk -- she's admitting that, yes, she loves Angel in a way more than 'friends' way. Because of that, she's decided that they shouldn't play at being friends. Angel wants to know if there is any way that they can still see each other. And Buffy's saying no. Because she knows that Angel loves her and that he's not going to lie to her about it.

In As You Were, I don't think that she's doing that either. She wants to believe that someone loves her, even if it isn't who she wants, even if it isn't someone she loves back. She knows that Spike does love her. I think that AYW may be the episode where she finally does figure that part out. That he really does love her, in his own fucked up way.

[spacedoutlooney.livejournal.com]

Actually, now that I think about it, it might be more appropriate to compare Lovers Walk ("tell me you don't love me") and Entropy ("you have to move on").

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

It didn't hurt like that the first time around. I wasn't at all invested in Angel's character, so I didn't care much.

Heh! I got that the other day watching the 24 hours that got swallowed episode of Angel - I was actually all tearful on Angel's behalf, which is pretty odd for me. He's not a bad actor, like I used to think...

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I got that the other day watching the 24 hours that got swallowed episode of Angel - I was actually all tearful on Angel's behalf, which is pretty odd for me. He's not a bad actor, like I used to think...

He really isn't that bad, even in the beginning. I think that I just thought all the other people were more interesting, the first time around.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

I think it would affect me more if they weren't back together in two episodes. Honestly, I just couldn't (and still can't) buy the whole "forever, all-consuming love" bit in Season 3, from either of them.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I think that I buy it, in retrospect, because of Chosen. Because of the way that Buffy lights up when she sees Angel and the way his whole world is her again, just for when he's with her. That their love is still that strong after four years of barely seeing each other speaks volumes. Buffy was the first person that Angel loved, she made him perfectly happy. He was her first love. They'll never forget each other, never stop loving each other.

None of which means that I think they should get back together. Like they said many times -- none of the things that made their relationship impossible have changed.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

I think I look at it the other way around. I don't really buy that they're that deeply in love with each other in Season 3, and it seems less so in each of their later meetings. As such, most of those meetings leave me cold (at least), and the whole "Angel's my forever love and I'll never love anyone as much as him" thing really just irritates me. (For one thing, it's not romantic so much as astoundingly depressing.) The fact that Spike's my favorite character just helps seal my hatred for that scene in Chosen.

I believe they were in love in Season 2, to be certain, and that they thought of themselves as in love after that, but I don't think the intensity of feeling was actually there. I can see them *wanting* to reclaim that; for Buffy, it was when she was innocent and relatively happy, and for Angel, it's the one truly happy time in his last century-plus. So there's definitely warm feelings from nostalgia there. I can also see that they'll always still love each other on some level for the same reasons, plus, as you said, the first love aspect for Buffy. But I agree with you about a relationship being a bad idea (for more reasons than theirs), and then some, and I just find I can't buy the whole Buffy/Angel madly-and-forever-in-love vibe that the writers were so keen to sell.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

My thing is that I didn't buy it during. I was such the Xander fangirl my first time through. My true Buffy fangirlness didn't hit until Season Six. So, the first time through? I hated Angel and the B/A relationship. Chosen was the first time that I realised... wow, Angel makes Buffy's eyes light up. And she was my girl by then. He made my girl happy, just by existing. Huge thing for me. And it made me completely re-evaluate their relationship.