Teen Wolf: I have so many feelings about Derek.

[butterfly]

Someone please tell me that there are essays written about Derek Hale. Because. I have so many feelings. And I want to read other people having feelings.

Because. Because he was 15/16-ish. And I'm guessing all he knew was his family/pack. And then he met this older girl. And he trusted her and loved her and was all cute and 15/16.

And she burned his family to death. And he blames himself. And she's still laughing about it six years later because werewolves are not people to her; they're not even animals. They're monsters and she feels strong and righteous when she destroys them. And the first time we see Derek vulnerable is because of Kate's bullet (of course it is -- and Scott, Stiles, and Allison work together and save him from Kate's bullet because, aw. I actually really like that it takes all three of them to save him -- Stiles does the immediate 'taking care of' (while complaining, lol), Scott finds the answer, but then Allison saves Scott's ass and helps him escape so that he can take the answer back to Stiles & Derek). Because he still blames himself for his family dying. How can he ever heal while he's still blaming himself for his family horribly burning to death?

He needs someone to tell him that it's not his fault. Kate took advantage of him. She used him. He was just a kid. It's not his fault.

Comments

[scy]

OH YES. I ALSO HAVE A GREAT DEAL TO SAY ABOUT DEREK HALE.

And all the stuff he says to Scott, about being a moron for loving a hunter (which, given season 2, we can agree there, Derek) is all a callback to his own experience - being 16 and not knowing what he's doing, etc, telling the pack that once they start running they will never stop?

All of that can be traced back to his own experiences.

And, we have to remember, that for everyone who is giving him crap for not being the best Alpha ever, and stumbling all over the place - it's been about four months since he came back to Beacon Hills for likely the first time in 6 years to find his sister - only relative that he had contact with - his lifeline, pack - IN PIECES.

Then he has to try and save this kind of potato of a werewolf, who is actively fighting and undermining him - all the while he is trying to avoid the hunters and find out who is killing people in his hometown.

It's not as if he couldn't have left again, there was no FAMILY connection really anymore, and for all he knew, Peter was never going to recover.

But, because he is in fact, a decent guy, he stayed, protected Scott, worked with Stiles, and never ONCE struck out at the hunters first. He will defend himself, but he actively avoids the Argents. See also episode 3 (I think it is) where he is confronted by Chris at the gas station. See the only sign of discomfort is his hand unclenching. That? is some serious fucking control. His facial expression never changes, his voice doesn't reflect how a) scared he is b) how furious he is to be accused of this, and hunted just for being who and what he is.

Talk about Derek's control. It is kind of amazingly ridiculous. Even when he is dealing with Kate, he doesn't go all furry, he just tries to frighten her off, because oh, the hunters came into his burned out shell of a house to TERRORIZE him. Because they are assholes. So far Chris is literally the only hunter to reflect on what they do and abide by the Code.

And when Kate gets him on the ground, Derek is scared out of his mind. He flinches away from her, stays as still as he can and tries to just make it through the conversation without being touched or killed.

Also the reveal of werewolves to Allison - she meets Derek as a werewolf (without civilized introductions) as though he is a beast, which on some level has informed her opinion of him. He didn't threaten her, was tied up, obviously being tortured, and referred to as an animal and a 'thing.' She then shot him, with Kate's direction, twice, and blinded her boyfriend, and if she'd had a stronger stomach, would have killed him.

And, right there, with Derek bleeding out, he was STILL protecting Scott. FFS, McCall, you are SUCH an ass.

I'm not saying I don't get that she has a lot to come to terms with, but the fact that she made that jump to hunting werewolves so fast is a huge deal. That needs to be addressed, and she needs to be actually called on it.

[butterfly]

I can't handle my feelings for Derek. TOO MUCH.

And all the stuff he says to Scott, about being a moron for loving a hunter (which, given season 2, we can agree there, Derek) is all a callback to his own experience - being 16 and not knowing what he's doing, etc, telling the pack that once they start running they will never stop?

All of that can be traced back to his own experiences.

Yes, absolutely. He was the one who believes he was an idiot for falling in love and he was the sixteen year-old without a clue. He's the person who feels like he doesn't have anyone who gives a shit about him (as he projected onto Jackson).

Poor kid has had such a raw deal.

And, we have to remember, that for everyone who is giving him crap for not being the best Alpha ever, and stumbling all over the place - it's been about four months since he came back to Beacon Hills for likely the first time in 6 years to find his sister - only relative that he had contact with - his lifeline, pack - IN PIECES.

Yes! He's so new at this and he's completely emotionally traumatized. I mean, he chooses to live in the burned-out husk of his family home and only seems to stop living there when the Argents force him out so that they can take it over as a training ground.

Then he has to try and save this kind of potato of a werewolf, who is actively fighting and undermining him - all the while he is trying to avoid the hunters and find out who is killing people in his hometown.

He is trying so hard to help Scott but he doesn't really know what he's doing and it's compounded by how Scott is so unwilling to work with him (which is understandable from Scott's PoV, but...the guy is trying to help you, damnit).

He will defend himself, but he actively avoids the Argents. See also episode 3 (I think it is) where he is confronted by Chris at the gas station. See the only sign of discomfort is his hand unclenching. That? is some serious fucking control. His facial expression never changes, his voice doesn't reflect how a) scared he is b) how furious he is to be accused of this, and hunted just for being who and what he is.

OMG, yes. That moment when he clenches his fist and then relaxes it and he's just holding onto his control so tightly.

And when Kate gets him on the ground, Derek is scared out of his mind. He flinches away from her, stays as still as he can and tries to just make it through the conversation without being touched or killed.

So heartbreaking. She's just basically abusing him at this point; she has all the power over him and he's so obviously terrified and feels helpless. This is the woman who killed his family. Who used him to kill his family. And she still gets off on it. I can't even imagine how scary that was for him, to be lying in agony and despair at the feet of the person who destroyed your life.

Also the reveal of werewolves to Allison - she meets Derek as a werewolf (without civilized introductions) as though he is a beast, which on some level has informed her opinion of him. He didn't threaten her, was tied up, obviously being tortured, and referred to as an animal and a 'thing.' She then shot him, with Kate's direction, twice, and blinded her boyfriend, and if she'd had a stronger stomach, would have killed him.

Yeah, it seems like most of the Argents believe that strength = violence.

And, right there, with Derek bleeding out, he was STILL protecting Scott. FFS, McCall, you are SUCH an ass.

Scott has had on such huge blinders in S1.

[scy]

And, so far we (and Derek) haven't had any indications that anybody CARES about Derek. I mean, Stiles is working toward more of a truce (which is somewhat, and understandably hindered by Derek's own issues) but the new pack, some of them are more interested in bonding than others, and it's a question of whether they chose to become werewolves out of a need and then want a new family, or if they have their own reasons and don't feel the same loyalty.

Derek's self awareness of his own issues is good, and while it doesn't always help him, one can't say that he doesn't know what his own damage is. I wouldn't be surprised if Laura tried to get him to see somebody about his trauma - her own too, but she would have been able to see that he was in pain on another level.

The mere fact that he didn't have a complete nervous breakdown after he found Laura's body, or after the events of s1 is incredible. He is still on his feet, moving, trying to help people, and THINKING, even after all he's been through - he cares about people still, all of that speaks to him having some hope of healing enough for a relationship someday.

People just have to realize that it's not just that he's a bit socially awkward, he has huge freaking issues that have to be acknowledged.

But, I think that the Argents need to realize that, for all his inexperience, having an Alpha like Derek, somebody who is AWARE of the cost of conflict, and who tries to avoid it first, is way better than they may have first realized. This is somebody who instead of striking out and ending them, even after he became Alpha, went to ground. He knew what was coming and chose to withdraw and not continue the war.

I don't dislike Allison, but I feel like all that her family issues have to be brought up and that if she and the pack are to ever truly interact well, they have to have a frank discussion about it.

Ugh, Kate.

Just - the way she acted around Derek was so awful, and then in front of her niece? I can understand Allison's shock, but that right there? Is the guy who never did a thing to you - and even if she didn't have any idea who he was on a personal level? She was in the burned out shell of his house. All Kate's talk about how an event like that changes you? Think, Allison? And be glad that it wasn't Derek that decided to get revenge on you or your family.

[butterfly]

And, so far we (and Derek) haven't had any indications that anybody CARES about Derek. I mean, Stiles is working toward more of a truce (which is somewhat, and understandably hindered by Derek's own issues) but the new pack, some of them are more interested in bonding than others, and it's a question of whether they chose to become werewolves out of a need and then want a new family, or if they have their own reasons and don't feel the same loyalty.

Yeah. He doesn't have anyone who is invested in Derek because he's Derek. Because all those people are dead.

The mere fact that he didn't have a complete nervous breakdown after he found Laura's body, or after the events of s1 is incredible. He is still on his feet, moving, trying to help people, and THINKING, even after all he's been through - he cares about people still, all of that speaks to him having some hope of healing enough for a relationship someday.

People just have to realize that it's not just that he's a bit socially awkward, he has huge freaking issues that have to be acknowledged.

Yes. Derek has remarkable control for all he's been through (just look at Peter). He doesn't want revenge (not uncontrollably), he just wants people to leave him alone and stop hurting him. But he also cares about other people not getting hurt, despite everything that happened to him, so he also can't help getting involved when he knows there are killers out there (and, of course, he doesn't trust the Hunters not to kill innocents).

But, I think that the Argents need to realize that, for all his inexperience, having an Alpha like Derek, somebody who is AWARE of the cost of conflict, and who tries to avoid it first, is way better than they may have first realized. This is somebody who instead of striking out and ending them, even after he became Alpha, went to ground. He knew what was coming and chose to withdraw and not continue the war.

Yes. He doesn't want a war. He doesn't want to fight. He wants peace and to live in peace.

I don't dislike Allison, but I feel like all that her family issues have to be brought up and that if she and the pack are to ever truly interact well, they have to have a frank discussion about it.

Yeah. She needs to deal with her family issues. Because her family is totally screwed up, so she needs to not assume that they're in the right or that they'll do right, because experience says, "not so much".

Just - the way she acted around Derek was so awful, and then in front of her niece? I can understand Allison's shock, but that right there? Is the guy who never did a thing to you - and even if she didn't have any idea who he was on a personal level? She was in the burned out shell of his house. All Kate's talk about how an event like that changes you? Think, Allison? And be glad that it wasn't Derek that decided to get revenge on you or your family.

Yeah. I mean, you have a situation where someone is being tortured right in front of you. I don't care if the person doing the torturing is someone you thought was perfect and amazing -- they are torturing someone, this should have an impact on how you seen them.

Or, like, I just watched 2x06 and Allison's mom just threatened to kill Scott if Allison wasn't 'strong' (about giving him up, I guess). There is a pattern of behavior that is going on in your family, Allison.

[scy]

Yes, and Derek knows that Scott doesn't give a damn about him, that's why he quickly established that he was the person with information about werewolves who could help Scott. Having to blackmail somebody so they won't let you DIE IN THE STREET is kind of a huge thing - small wonder that he's slow to trust. And that part pissed me off, Scott, I know he annoys you sometimes, but the guy is BLEEDING OUT in front of you - he's supposed to be a vet tech, or training for it, seriously lacking in compassion there, bucko.

Peter's feelings about Derek were a whole different thing. Yes, he claims that he needs Derek, and we have seen in s2 that a pack is important for an Alpha, but he also said that his mind and personality were burned out of him. So the old Uncle Peter is gone. The new guy that Scott met in the end of s1 was funny, yes, but he wasn't the on that Derek grew up with.

He is alone.

All that Derek wants is to live in peace and for hunters not to go around killing innocent people. This should be simpler than it is.

Uh huh, Allison's family is SO screwed up. Hopefully, as the sane one, Chris is going to take steps to do something about that.

The torturing scene was awful on so many levels - and the lack of repercussions for Kate in terms of how Allison sees her bothered me so much. Torture. That isn't something that one should just forget.

Yeah, Allison's mom certainly bought into the family Code, and not the one that Chris abide s by. This pattern of behavior might be impressive to other hunters, but it's going to keep getting people killed.

[butterfly]

Yes, and Derek knows that Scott doesn't give a damn about him, that's why he quickly established that he was the person with information about werewolves who could help Scott. Having to blackmail somebody so they won't let you DIE IN THE STREET is kind of a huge thing - small wonder that he's slow to trust. And that part pissed me off, Scott, I know he annoys you sometimes, but the guy is BLEEDING OUT in front of you - he's supposed to be a vet tech, or training for it, seriously lacking in compassion there, bucko.

Yeah, Derek seems to be the person that Scott has the least compassion for, really, which just feels so unfair given that Derek is the character that has suffered the most and is least at fault for it and who hasn't let himself turn into a monster because of it. He deserves compassion, is what I'm saying.

All that Derek wants is to live in peace and for hunters not to go around killing innocent people. This should be simpler than it is.

He wants so little and he can't even have that much.

The torturing scene was awful on so many levels - and the lack of repercussions for Kate in terms of how Allison sees her bothered me so much. Torture. That isn't something that one should just forget.

Yeah, and on a closure level, I kinda hate that Derek wasn't the one who killed Kate. Because he was never able to get past being her victim, being the person she has all the power over. And now that she's dead, that might make it all the harder for him to be able to heal from the damage she caused.

[scy]

Scott's blind spot about Derek is huge, and at the end of s2 I just want to shake him and say 'after all this, it would serve you right if Derek didn't help you, young man!' - Because, Derek has tried so hard to make Scott a part of his pack, to work with him, and yeah, he sucks at social interaction, but it's not malicious, and he treats Scott like a younger brother. Which, okay, again, not the way that Scott expects, but Derek has NEVER not pulled Scott's ass out of trouble. That needs to be counted, and Scott needs to realize that his behavior is not conducive to having people trust him, and then feel any need to lend him assistance.

That's just basic reasoning, and if Scott is unable to come to that conclusion without help, his BFF and others need to point it out. Because they are seeing this pattern. And sooner or later, Derek is going to say 'he needs to learn a lesson' - and hopefully it's not going to be one that hurts Scott too badly.

Derek would be happy kicking back and just relaxing, living a quiet life, he doesn't NEED a lot, and the fact that he is denied all of that is so depressing.

I do wonder about their choice of having Peter kill Kate. It seems to be that it was about revenge, but also, Peter was the one enacting this revenge, and while Derek had a very personal stake, besides their famiily being killed, he knew that Peter would finish this. Almost like his right as Alpha. It was only when Peter clearly wouldn't stop that Derek stepped forward and deliberately sliced his throat in one of the more theatrical passages of power that I have seen.

That right there was him saying 'this war can end here' to the Argents. The offer was there, and Gerard had to step in with his agenda.

I do think that it might have helped for him to kill her, on the other hand, that might have put him on her level, and it would be better that it be a slower process, with Derek only striking out when he needs to, and not being a werewolf known for his violence. He can fight, that isn't the question, it's when he does that really counts.

[butterfly]

That's just basic reasoning, and if Scott is unable to come to that conclusion without help, his BFF and others need to point it out. Because they are seeing this pattern. And sooner or later, Derek is going to say 'he needs to learn a lesson' - and hopefully it's not going to be one that hurts Scott too badly.

Yeah, Derek has given Scott a ton of extra chances. And once Scott found out that Derek wasn't the one who bit him, you'd think his attitude would have improved. Because he'd realize that Derek has only ever helped him.

But Scott does not have critical thinking skills most of the time.

That right there was him saying 'this war can end here' to the Argents. The offer was there, and Gerard had to step in with his agenda.

Yeah, everything could have just ended if not for Gerard and his agenda. At least for now.

I do think that it might have helped for him to kill her, on the other hand, that might have put him on her level, and it would be better that it be a slower process, with Derek only striking out when he needs to, and not being a werewolf known for his violence. He can fight, that isn't the question, it's when he does that really counts.

True, good point. It's less immediately cathartic but probably more long-lasting a heal if he does it the non-violent way.

[scy]

Yeah, but Scott really has a huge issue with Derek - which could be because he felt that Derek was never NICE, but come on, not everyone is going to hold you hand and give you cookies while they explain things. Sooner or later, it comes down to showing some basic common sense and reasoning, otherwise one won't survive.

This is true- Scott needs to have somebody point things out to him a lot.

Mmm, it remains to be seen what happens in the aftermath of this season with regards to the hunters.

Yeah, and having not killed her, Derek can distance himself from being 'just like her.' He is willing to kill, but it would have served no purpose, other than his own ends.

[butterfly]

Yeah, but Scott really has a huge issue with Derek - which could be because he felt that Derek was never NICE, but come on, not everyone is going to hold you hand and give you cookies while they explain things. Sooner or later, it comes down to showing some basic common sense and reasoning, otherwise one won't survive.

I think that no one ever told Scott that Nice, Good, and Right are all different things. Derek can be basically good and he can be right about a lot of things and still not be nice. Won't make him less good or less right.

Yeah, and having not killed her, Derek can distance himself from being 'just like her.' He is willing to kill, but it would have served no purpose, other than his own ends.

And Derek's ability to keep hold of his moral center after all the shit he's gone through is very admirable. Especially when we compare him to Peter.

[scy]

It's the lesson that Harry Potter didn't easily learn about Snape. One does not have to be Nice to be Good.

Scott will have to look around himself more if he wants to grow up and not alienate people.

Derek's control and morality are both frighteningly impressive. Which means that if he has a little more support, he really will grow into a good Alpha.

It remains to be seen what will happen with the rest of the Hale pack. They might very well grow into a strong unit, or Derek may adjust and expand in different directions.

[sperrywink]

You know it is funny, but there are tons of Stiles/Derek meta, but no Derek meta, sad to say (That I know of).

Because you are right. Derek is many things, but at fault isn't one of them. He is trying his best to stop the killings and protect people, but he is crap at it because he is so damaged by what Kate did to him and his family. And it is sad and tragic.

I have developed all the Derek feels too.

[butterfly]

Yes. Derek is trying so hard to protect people and stop murderers but he's really bad at communicating successfully that this is what he's trying to do. And now he's trying to hard to be 'the Alpha' and it's just so obviously not a role he was prepared for at all.