So, I've just watched Mansfield Park...

[butterfly]

I watched both the 1999 movie that has Lindsay Duncan (aka Servilia from Rome) as the aunt with the pug and Sophia Myles (Reinette from "Girl in the Fireplace", dated David Tennant, did that Moonlight show) as Fanny's sister Susie, and the 2007 ITV version that has Billie Piper as Fanny Price and Michelle Ryan (Nimueh from Merlin) as the adulterous cousin, Maria.

I feel that I should mention at this point that I have not read this particular Austen novel (it's on my list!).

It's a rather charming story, with some quite daring elements around the edges, about two thoughtful people realizing that their best love is in their affection for each other, though each is tempted by someone flashier and more fashionable for a time (it's how Dawson and Joey could have been, if they'd been written as a healthy relationship and good for each other -- a childhood friendship that slowly becomes a true and deep love).

The 1999 movie also had this fascinating slashy tension between Fanny and Mary Crawford -- both Crawfords seem rather taken with her. Mr. Rushworth is more likable in the Billie version, making Maria even more unsympathetic (her father tells her that she can break it off if she likes, that her feelings are paramount, and she still goes ahead with the marriage while knowing that she vastly prefers Crawford -- the clear implication is, indeed, that she's doing it for the money).

The focus in the two versions was different -- the 2007 version spends more time at the beginning on Maria and Henry Crawford having an attraction, while the 1999 version really makes it seem like he sleeps with her primarily because Fanny says no. He's attracted to her, but it's not shown to be as powerful as it appears in the 2007 version. So, that's interesting. In the 1999 version, I really do get the impression that Henry falls in love with Fanny and wants to change for her, but when she doesn't immediately fall over herself to embrace that change (and I don't blame her), he falls back into his old ways. In this version, it seems as though he loved/lusted after Maria and, upon the occasion of her wedding, distracted himself by fancying Fanny. Which makes him less sympathic as well. In the 1999 movie version, I genuinely felt like the story might go either way -- it might be about what it was actually about (Fanny and Edmund accepting their mutual love) or it might have been a story about how Fanny and Henry coming together and her getting over Edmund. So, there was a tension in the movie version that didn't exist in the ITV version, because the character of Henry Crawford lacks that sympathetic quality in the 2007 version (he uses the same line on both Fanny and Maria).

The members of the family that aren't Edmund (or Aunt with Pug) are bigger jerks to Fanny in the early part of the 2007 version. Fanny has a brother named William in the 2007 version who comes for a visit to Mansfield and he appears to be nonexistent in the 1999 version -- instead, she writes to her sister Susie. I suspect that William may be more accurate to the book, as the movie also apparently incorporated bits of Jane Austen's life story into it (they say), while the ITV version is solely from the book. Both siblings are intensely likable -- I continue to find Sophia Myles infinitely more charming in roles that aren't Reinette, as I found her absolutely darling as Susie.

We never see Fanny at her original home in the ITV version, while we spend considerable time there with the 1999 movie.

Both versions make Fanny considerably healthier and more active than I understand her to be in the novel. This is understandable, as it's hard to make a passive character your main hero in film/tv and much easier to do so in books, where thoughts can be literally seen (she's actually constantly attempting to be an observer and being relentlessly drawn into the action despite herself, though both versions come up with different contrivances to do so).

One of the things that was fascinating how freely Edmund admits that he loves Fanny -- he just isn't prepared to admit to the kind of love that he feels. That's true in both versions.

And, in both versions, it's quite a good story, though I think the earlier one was better done. I still enjoyed the ITV version, but it lacked a certain subtlety.

Comments

[chase820.livejournal.com]

Neither version begins to do justice to the book. The best way to approach Mansfield Park the novel is to remember that this is a story about the abuses of class. The romance plots are only ancillary to this, and take a back seat to the bigger point Austen is making. Very different from Pride and Prejudice in this respect, and one reason I think it's less popular. But a more mature work than P&P in many ways.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

The 1999 movie plays a lot more attention to class issues (and Fanny's problems with the slavery used to fund the family's wealth), but it's definitely still primarily a character and romance drama.

I really do want to read the book at some point.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

Mansfield Park isn't my favourite Austen, but I do think it's the meatiest. The amount of depth you discover on every single re-reading is astonishing. And of course everyone has their own view of what it's "about". Personally, I think it's "about" how trapped women are, even wealthy women. Every single woman in the book is trapped in a man's home - Mary Crawford has to leave her uncle's, where she has lived most of her life, because he installs his mistress. She can't go and live with her brother on his estate because Henry, that charming flirt, can't be arsed to settle down in one place, even though it means his sister is forced to live in the country with a tedious and bad-mannered brother-in-law. In the book, Sir Thomas does offer Maria the chance to back out of the wedding with Rushworth, and she refuses because she is so desperate to escape the tomb-like atmosphere of her father's house (Julia marries Yates for the same reason, but is lucky enough not to be subsequnetly tempted by a Henry). I have to say that I find Book!Henry to be a monster - he's superficially witty and attractive, but the games he plays with women's hearts, when they are so much more vulnerable than he is really are unforgivable. But lots of people do like Henry, and believe that he would have improved had Fanny married him - it's one of the ways in which the book is so rich.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that the book is well worth reading ;-) Fanny is problematic, but struggling to understand her and why she is the way she is is one of the challenges that make Mansfield Park so rewarding.

[mellificent.livejournal.com]

I just re-read the book a couple of weeks ago, and I was torn between thinking that Henry would have improved had Fanny married him, and thinking he would have tired of her, stuck her in a country house somewhere and gone off to London to enjoy himself, as shallow as ever. I suspect that the latter is more realistic, although Austen herself definitely implies the possibility of the more optimistic version.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

I'm convinced that interpretation #2 is correct! He can't even stop himself from running off with Maria when he's trying to woo Fanny - when he has every possible incentive not to flirt. How on earth would he manage it once Fanny was no long a prize to be won but a boring old wife?

[millylicious.livejournal.com]

In all the versions I have seen, Fanny is made into a more mindful and strong characters than she really is in the book. I loved the love story between Edmund and Fanny in the movies. In the book, it kind of feels like he just happens to marry her because she's there and she wants to be a preacher's wife and loves him, so he might as well marry her. The resolution between him not loving Mary anymore and marrying Fanny is pretty much in the same page.

Throughout the entire book, she is described as a quiet woman with a poor health (she gets sick if she doesn't ride her horse for a few weeks) who is more of a victim than anything. She's not really loved by her family, she's not really loved by her foster family...I kind of actually wanted her to marry Henry, because at least he cared for her. She's the least admire of Austen's heroines, because she's not really a heroine. In the book, her extensive devotion is also mentionned, and that's the only part where she displays confidence and knowledge. For the rest, she's mostly a victim to everyone's games.

I mean, at the end of the book, Fanny's sister replaces her as caretaker to her aunt and Austen mentions how her aunt loved her so much more than she ever did Fanny.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

The interesting thing, though, is that Jane Austen clearly had something in mind when she wrote her like that. Because it's not as if she couldn't write strong-minded, witty, attractive female characters. She made Fanny like that on purpose - and every time I read the book, I struggle to work out what that purpose was.

I kind of actually wanted her to marry Henry, because at least he cared for her

I have my doubts about that. She was a challenge. And while it turned out to be more fun than he expected, any good influence she had on him, vanished as soon as he was on his own. He drops the idea of going off to do good for his tenants in favour of having fun in London as soon as Fanny isn't around to impress, and while I'm sure that if he had been married to Fanny, his good intentions would have lasted longer, I'm also sure that he would very soon have got fed up of being constantly judged and found wanting. And the way he dealt with that would have made Fanny very unhappy.

she's not really loved by her foster family.

Edmund loves her. I'm not entirely convinced that he's in love with her, but all his actions indicate that he loves her.

The resolution between him not loving Mary anymore and marrying Fanny is pretty much in the same page.


I know! And Austen is so careful to draw attention to the fact that this is a novel - "at exactly the right moment and no sooner" - = you, the reader, get to decide how long it took. It's as if she's flagging up the implausibility of the happy ending.

[millylicious.livejournal.com]

I think my thing with Henry is that, other than perhaps Mary, to a certain extent, he's the only character that displays interest for Fanny because of who she is. I have a lot of difficulty with Edmund's character in the book


Yes, Edmund loved her through her life - but the rest of the family was really indifferent to her.

I took the 'at exactly the right moment and no sooner' comment as furthering the idea that they married because of property and not because of love. I mean, it really sounded more like a contract more concerned with the properties of the period than love. Although, she does also mention that he wanted to marry Fanny and was anxious to do so

'I only entreat everybody to believe that exactly at the time when it was quite natural that it should be so, and not a week earlier, Edmund did cease to care about Miss Crawford, and became as anxious to marry Fanny as Fanny herself could desire. With such a regard for her, indeed, as his had long been, a regard founded on the most endearing claims of innocence and helplessness, and completed by every reccommendation of growing worth, what could be more natural than the change? Loving, guiding, protecting her, as he had been doing ever since her being ten years old, her mind in so great a degree formed by his care, and her comfort depending on his kindness, and object to him of such close and peculiar interest, dearer by all his own importance with her than any one else at Mansfield, what was there now to add, but that he should learn to prefer soft light eyes to sparkling dark ones?'

So basically, he loves her because she thinks like him, she depends on him and she's helpless.

Romance is not dead.

But at least, he marries the person that cares for him, that has always been by his side, not the seductress.

[jedi_of_urth]

Seems it's been a while since I watched either version and have never read the book (I love watching Austen because they're good stories but I find them difficult to read) so any comments I have come from that background.

I do prefer the mover version, as much as I like Billie (and you know I do) I liked the characterization of Fanny, and others, better in the movie version.

I think large parts of that come from things you mentioned. Because we see Fanny's Portsmith home and the realities of life there it's easier to feel just how trapped she is and when Henry swoops in offers her such fortunes along with his apparent love why wouldn't she reconsider things about him.

Also, the fact that there is more of a love triangle aspect with Edmond-Fanny-Henry. That even as Edmond is pushing her towards Henry you get the feeling that the idea of losing her as his friend and confidant, well before he falls for her, is difficult for him. And just Fanny's affection and pull towards each of them makes more sense.

Of course I could just be biased because I watched the movie a decent number of times before the ITV version came out. Kind of like how I've watched the Colin Firth version of P&P so many times that the Keira Knightly one barely stood a chance (it was pretty good, but for me P&P *is* the long version).

[millylicious.livejournal.com]

I felt the Billie version was truer to the novel though.

[jedi_of_urth]

I kind of suspected that even while I was watching it. There were just elements that seemed more...literary and Austenish. But I'm just fond of the movie version I guess.

[deepdarkness.livejournal.com]

I actually prefer the ITV version. I saw it before I read the book, then watched the 1999 movie after. I think character-wise the ITV version just jelled better, with me. Fanny is a quiet character, one who doesn't speak her mind unless prompted in the extreme because she is afraid of her family looking poorly on her. She doesn't want to offend. I found the movie version made her seem a touch too...Elizabeth Bennet at times. I was honestly surprised at some of the things she said and wondered "wait...this is Fanny Price, right?".

There were also plot things that I thought were done better in the ITV one than in the other. Myles' character was cute, but Fanny's brother--her twin brother--is the one she's close to. I was kinda annoyed that they cut him out in the movie version.

And I just like Billie Piper better. :p

[jedi_of_urth]

I found the movie version made her seem a touch too...Elizabeth Bennet at times. I was honestly surprised at some of the things she said and wondered "wait...this is Fanny Price, right?".

Even though I haven't read the book I can kind of see that. I'm not sure I'd say she was being Elizabeth Bennet-ish but Fanny was definitely serving a more...authorial role in the movie than I understand she does in the book. Not as in writing her own life story but narrating it at least in yeah a sort of sarcastic humor more fitting to P&P than a lot of other stories.

[silviakundera.livejournal.com]

I prefer the 2007 version, because it takes a problematic book and tweaks it into something lighter and more romance-y. Feels like a fanfic version of MP. The novel has a different focus, the movies are pleasant fanfic. Which, you know, I approve of. ;)

2007 is my preference because the 1999 goes too far, makes Fannie just too OOC. It was like an entirely different person. Fannie Price is a quiet, serious character with a strong sense of morality and propriety (and rather judge-y). She is not headstrong, witty, or spunky.

(The 2007 version does make Mr. Rushworth bizarrely sympathic, but I find it more startling to have the main character twisted so out of shape).

re: Fanny/Henry
I have to admit they are a favorite Austen unconventional ship for me. I feel like he's maybe the only person who could have pulled Fanny out of her mental shackles and taught her how to enjoy life, while she in return could have saved him from excesses. May I rec a couple Fanny/Henry fics I have bookmarked?

The Making of Henry
MP AU. Henry works to win Fannie over, while Edmond mourns his failed romance with Mary.

Everingham
MP AU. What if Henry Crawford hadn't met with Maria again at that party, and so no scandal and Edmond and Mary do get engaged?
(this is my fav of the 2)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Ooo. Thanks for the recs. I look forward to checking those out.

Okay, I've started to read the second one -- your favorite -- and it's made me cry (when Henry noticed during Mary and Edmond's wedding that Fanny was sad and figured out why)! But in the good, well-written way. Thank you. I'm going to go finish it now.

[silviakundera.livejournal.com]

oh, I'm so so happy you like it!

I have an affection for Jane Austen fic and I'm always saddened that they rarely have any UC pairings. I've found only one P&P longfic with AU pairings [Darcy/Kitty (primary pairing), Bingley/Elizabeth (secondary pairing) - AU novella where Darcy & Elizabeth didn't run into each other again after the failed proposal and so both his and her life proceeded very differently. It made me want to read more Elizabeth/Bingley fic, except there IS NONE. grrrrrrrrrrrrr.]

[silviakundera.livejournal.com]

you know, after linking that AU Pride & Prejudice fic, I went and re-read it and man, oh man, I desperately wish people wrote more Bingley fic. I love him so MUCH in this story. <33333333333333.

[tieleen.livejournal.com]

I've never seen either of the movies, and have trouble wrapping my head around Billie Piper as Fanny -- which, of course, makes me want to see it even more -- but I have to admit the reason I kind of want to now is that I hate Mansfield Park. A movie version will probably make it, if not better as a story, a lot more bearable as a world.

I've read it more than once, and will probably read it again, because I like Austen's writing, and because the only part where I'm really tempted to throw the book across the room is the very end, but it has some things in it that are very, very problematic -- the main one being the extreme lack of agency that Fanny has. I can't blame the period for it, because none of Austen's other characters feel that way, and I can't blame her situation, because it really felt to me in a lot of places like Austen approved of her, held her up as a model; for one thing, as much as I can remember, the only other female character that isn't strongly disapproved of is the Crawfords' married sister, and she's a bit character. I don't think it's pointed, because mostly all the characters are deeply flawed (though in this one, maybe the women a bit more than the men), but it adds to the feeling of Austen putting aside her own personality and her own views and holding up a girl who's something like the ideal of the little wife -- sensible but not too brilliant, moral but not proactive, identical in her view of life to her husband, who she grew up modeling herself after, and who was the only person she ever looked up to and leaned on emotionally.

--- Okay, that rant ran a little long, sorry. *g* A little more helpfully, a rec from the last Yuletide round -- not a happy ending, and one that actually makes me feel better about the real ending, but well worth the read, I think.