Doctor Who: The Girl in the Fireplace
May. 7th, 2006 01:36 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
butterfly
This is the first episode of the entire new series that I've been disappointed with.
I think that I... wanted this story to be bigger than it was. I've been trying to work out just how I feel about it, and the only thing in the whole story that felt solid to me was Rose.
After watching this episode, I think that I'm going to swear off spoilers for the rest of the season, because I thought that Mme. Pompadour would, well, matter more, in the grander scheme of things. From the way the spoilers sounded, I thought that she and the Doctor had had a previous acquaintance. That it was going to be, well, what School Reunion ended up being, an exploration of how, yes, the Doctor loved other people before he met Rose.
The story that I actually got in TGitF felt so much more shallow. This was the Doctor as a crushing schoolboy. It was so small in scope, this story, at least from his side of things. I wanted to care more about his relationship with this historical person. And I didn't, because it just felt so short and so tiny. In Rose, we see Rose badger and question and stubborn her way into the Doctor's quest to stop the Autons, and then we see him test her limits in End of the World. With Pompadour, though, we had two childhood visits before sudden snogging and then her random, magical ability to be telepathic back at the Doctor, which made me cry 'bullshit' even at the time.
And the whole 'wow, you've sure grown up' scene on the part of the Doctor was kinda creepy, actually. The only time that particular story has ever worked for me is Gigi.
Him being a fanboy of her, I did buy, considering how the Ninth Doctor was behaving with Charles Dickens last series, but love, on his part, is something I seriously question. Lust, sure. She's hot and she knows her way around a kiss. She's famous for being brilliant and beautiful and talented.
There were some brilliant moments in the episode, I'll definitely give it that, but I didn't get any emotional resonance out of the Doctor/Madame storyline. My emotional anchor in this was Rose, who, as I mentioned in my earlier post, broke my heart. Mostly in the complete contrast to her attitude in School Reunion. There, she was feisty and questioning. Here, after we met Pompadour, Rose's light seemed dimmed. She was more mature about it, yes, but in a way that felt so incredibly sad to me. She's realizing that Mickey's right in some ways -- the Doctor can be like any other bloke, can break a heart and not even notice it happening. And she cares about him so much, but that only means that she can be hurt all the more.
And what shop-girl could ever feel like she could compare with someone like Madame Pompadour? Rose has a lot of self-esteem, but she's gotten some hard hits the last two shows. And here is this woman who has all of Rose's good parts, bravery and cleverness and directness, but is also a noble, romantic figure. Someone who could never be dismissed as common (as Lady Cassandra did to Rose when she was in Rose's body).
I ache for her, that she might start to have doubts about her worthiness. I hope she doesn't, but there's been a lot of 'noble' blood talking down to her so far this series (Lady Cassandra, the Queen, Mme. Pompadour calling Rose a child when Rose was only trying to help as best she could).
She was silent back in School Reunion, when Finch was tempting the Doctor to remake the universe. Sarah Jane was the one who argued the Doctor back from the brink. Is it because Rose felt tempted, too? She's on the cusp of something, and I worry that new fears about her place in the Doctor's life will cause her to be tempted to do something rash at some point later in the series.
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-07 09:02 am (UTC)Besides, he made a promise to her. To show her the stars, and he broke that promise. It must have been hard for her. Like Sarah, she was kept waiting too.
As an old school Doctor Who fan, I think the center of the series for me is the Doctor not the companions. The companions may come and go, but the Doctor is forever.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-07 09:22 am (UTC)It may also depend on how much each viewer believes in the idea of love at first sight. I think that... there can be an initial triggering, and my favorite subtext couples are all about the instant clicking into place, but even there, I don't think of it as 'real' love until they actually know each other and the mind-meld wasn't sold well enough for me to buy it substituting for an actual relationship.
I did feel bad for the Doctor and his unbeliveable short-sightedness. He was a moron! When he goes back through the fireplace, time moves more quickly on her side -- doesn't he remember the leap from 'child' to 'snoggable'? I can't feel so horrible for him in that last scene where she's dead because it's his own damn fault for being an idiot.
Besides, he made a promise to her. To show her the stars, and he broke that promise. It must have been hard for her. Like Sarah, she was kept waiting too.
I feel somewhat bad for her, but it's hard for me to feel pity for such a strong and clearly much-adored woman. I mean, the Doctor had a fanboy reaction to her like he had to Dickens, so she clearly hasn't suffered in the history books either. I wanted to like her, as I ended up liking Sarah, but there just wasn't enough substance there for me to latch onto.
As an old school Doctor Who fan, I think the center of the series for me is the Doctor not the companions. The companions may come and go, but the Doctor is forever.
Whereas I've only just met this Doctor. Rose is the person in the TARDIS that I really feel that I truly know. Ten is different enough from Nine that, though I have adored him in the past four episodes, I still don't feel that I know him anywhere near as well as I know her.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-07 09:31 am (UTC)If I think about this eps, the plot hole is too obvious. But as I watched it, it pulled me in, it allowed me to ignore the holes in the story. Like why Mme. de Pompadour get attached that quickly either? Must be the hero worship or the Vulcan mind meld!!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-07 08:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 07:45 am (UTC)Aren't Nine and Rose meant to be Love At First Sight? Which never convinces me and, like I say, the Reinette thing only works because it makes its own allowances. I think that one's interest at first sight, crush fairly soon, love after they go all Vulcan on each other.
Whereas I've only just met this Doctor. Rose is the person in the TARDIS that I really feel that I truly know. Ten is different enough from Nine that, though I have adored him in the past four episodes, I still don't feel that I know him anywhere near as well as I know her.
It is A Thing in fandom, really, that there are three modes of watching this show, and this ep kind of nails that. There's those who watch it as part of the Doctor's life and for them it was generally great because it says a lot of stuff about him and love that we've always sort of suspected. People that like Rose see it from her PoV and think he was a complete twat. And then (slight crossover with the previous group, partly just because of when they started watching) there's shippers, for whom this was OOC because the entire point of this show is how the Doctor ends up married to Rose.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 08:16 am (UTC)I've never thought of Nine and Rose as love at first sight. He saves her life, yeah, but he'd do the same for anyone. They have three coincidental meetings before she ends up tagging along in the TARDIS for the first time, and that was mostly because they were being chased by the fake Mickey. Then, she saves his life back and continues to be clever, so he invites her along, but even then he ends up flirting with a tree while she bemoans the fact that she went along with a complete stranger.
For me, I think that Nine first fell a little bit in love when she told him to go ahead and save the world in World War Three, no hesitation or doubt (there's some flirtiness in The Unquiet Dead, but I wouldn't call it love).
Whereas I've only just met this Doctor. Rose is the person in the TARDIS that I really feel that I truly know. Ten is different enough from Nine that, though I have adored him in the past four episodes, I still don't feel that I know him anywhere near as well as I know her.
It is A Thing in fandom, really, that there are three modes of watching this show, and this ep kind of nails that. There's those who watch it as part of the Doctor's life and for them it was generally great because it says a lot of stuff about him and love that we've always sort of suspected. People that like Rose see it from her PoV and think he was a complete twat. And then (slight crossover with the previous group, partly just because of when they started watching) there's shippers, for whom this was OOC because the entire point of this show is how the Doctor ends up married to Rose.
Well, I don't think that he was a complete twat. Mostly, I think that he was stupid at the end and incredibly reckless throughout (and while he's usually somewhat reckless, this is the first time that he's been so reckless with Rose, so it did stand out). And, yeah, my heart ached for Rose, definitely. Because it hurts when the fairytale ends, and I hate that she has to go through that... disillusionment, though it may make her stronger in the end.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-07 09:32 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-07 08:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-07 11:51 pm (UTC)Also, I have to echo your sentiment about avoiding spoilers in the future. I learned this in the latter days of BtVS, where the *freaking out* over the spoilers was loads worse than the reality of the episode. I should remember that in the future.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 08:05 am (UTC)So, yes, I think I will try to avoid spoilers, so that I don't build unrealistic expectations in the future.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 07:34 am (UTC)I just went all old skool and thought "yeah, she's seen him pull this shit before, and he's the one who taught her why no one should be allowed to play god."
I bought the love story this week probably because that deck was stacked (http://nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com/1020487.html#cutid1). I feel like Moffat gets the Doctor in a way that sometimes Rusty doesn't. Even back in S1, Moffat's Doctor was the one with context, the one who'd been a father and a grandfather and who had a lonely childhood. Moffat's Rose is less central, and yet the way he sells her as Pretty Good But Not Flawless works more for me. I still didn't vastly care when she and Mickey got abandoned, but it didn't seem overwrought, it didn't seem like I was being forced to care. And she was resigned this time, didn't let her selfishness take over even as the Doctor got to thinking about no one but himself.
So for me it actually felt huge. It's this glimpse of the Doctor that by the standards of the show is massive.
I looooove him.(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 08:00 am (UTC)Which does make sense, but with all of the god theme-age of this series so far, I wonder if it'll mean something further down the road.
Pompadour really was Too Damn Perfect for me to get attached to her in any real way (apparently, she was That Damn Perfect in real life, too, but she was probably being played by a more interesting actor in real life). Though I think the deal-breaker for me is when she reads his mind. Because... dude, the fuck? A day later, and I'm still stuck on WTF? for that scene.
I liked Moffat's episodes last year a lot better -- I adored that line about how the Doctor used to be a father and a grandfather. That had weight. This episode... if I'd been able to buy the romance, it might have had that weight for me, but I really couldn't.
And really, I think I was expecting too much -- I was expecting something closer to that fic you wrote recently, where they actually do have a relationship that spans time on both sides.
Plus, the moment where the Doctor is a huge idiot at the end really sticks at me. He knows that time moves faster on her side when he's on the 51st century end of the fireplace. He knows it. So, what he should have done, when he realized that he really wanted her to travel with him, was go back into the TARDIS and travel with that to see her. Instead, like a moron, he went back through the fireplace and placed himself as returning after her death, with her having lived her life without him coming back. Thus creating a paradox if he did pop around in the TARDIS. I'm not the professional time-jumper alien, and I figured that one out.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 08:07 am (UTC)I have pondered the tie to Rose's giddiness in Tooth & Claw and wonder if perhaps it suggests that Rose is too close to him to be the anchor he needs to stop him going too hubristic?
Though I think the deal-breaker for me is when she reads his mind. Because... dude, the fuck? A day later, and I'm still stuck on WTF? for that scene.
Am beginning to think he let her in without quite meaning to. There's enough attraction by that point that he might have been tempted. Am unsure though.
And really, I think I was expecting too much -- I was expecting something closer to that fic you wrote recently, where they actually do have a relationship that spans time on both sides.
The thing I was waiting on was some revelation that the mindmeld is the reason her brain was compatible, like they knew it would be and didn't know why or when it happened.
Plus, the moment where the Doctor is a huge idiot at the end really sticks at me. He knows that time moves faster on her side when he's on the 51st century end of the fireplace. He knows it.
He's beyond sense then, and there's a theory that he thought he'd fixed it when he mended that loose connection. He's thick, but it's inevitable and he's a wee bit in love with his own suffering anyay. The fool that he is.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 08:27 am (UTC)*nods*
I've read a lot about how the companions are supposed to be anchors for the Doctor and gone -- well, that's not Rose much of the time. She's too excited by the travel and the joy of most of it to be someone who can ground the Doctor. Which is part of why I was happy about Mickey joining at the end of School Reunion, that he might be the level-headed one. But then Rose was much more subdued in this episode, and I was confused.
Am beginning to think he let her in without quite meaning to. There's enough attraction by that point that he might have been tempted. Am unsure though.
That's where it feels too magic for me. Like -- someone was comparing it to the mind-reading that happens in Harry Potter and I ended up thinking, "Hey, you're getting too much fantasy in my sci-fi here." Magical mind-bonds are generally in the 'fantasy' category for me, whereas sci-fi telepathy tends to be either a)harder, b) more painful or c) generally a pain-in-the-ass for the telepathic person involved, because it doesn't come with a magic switch to turn it on and off.
It just didn't feel like it fit the universe that the show is set in. Discordant.
And really, I think I was expecting too much -- I was expecting something closer to that fic you wrote recently, where they actually do have a relationship that spans time on both sides.
The thing I was waiting on was some revelation that the mindmeld is the reason her brain was compatible, like they knew it would be and didn't know why or when it happened.
And that would have been a good reason for the mindmeld to happen in the first place, making it a plot point rather than a romantic shortcut. I would probably have been fine with it if it'd meant something other than "and now Pompadour is magically the person best suited to shag the Doctor."
Plus, the moment where the Doctor is a huge idiot at the end really sticks at me. He knows that time moves faster on her side when he's on the 51st century end of the fireplace. He knows it.
He's beyond sense then, and there's a theory that he thought he'd fixed it when he mended that loose connection. He's thick, but it's inevitable and he's a wee bit in love with his own suffering anyay. The fool that he is.
I am more willing that he's fallen in love with his "woe, I am the suffering, lonely Time Lord" thing than with Pompadour, to be honest. He does seem fond of his emo moments.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 04:46 pm (UTC)It may well be A Thing this year. Actually, I had a moment of Rose!like in Girl Inna Fireplace when she says "Look what the cat dragged in, it's the Oncoming Storm." Cos he needs the occasional bitchslap and it's nice when she brings it in a non-annoying-to-me way.
That's where it feels too magic for me.
Heh, my bestest friend can't stand the Magic Glowy TARDIS Heart stuff.
I would probably have been fine with it if it'd meant something other than "and now Pompadour is magically the person best suited to shag the Doctor."
I can go with it because it's essential to the whole thing, which is in turn essential to showing us something of the Doctor that we've never really seen before. If it's going to show us a love story, he needs to be in love and whatnot. And it gives us some really good insight into his brain.
I am more willing that he's fallen in love with his "woe, I am the suffering, lonely Time Lord" thing than with Pompadour, to be honest. He does seem fond of his emo moments.
I think both but he is SO atatched to his own pain.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-09 07:46 am (UTC)That was a great moment. Very amusing.
That's where it feels too magic for me.
Heh, my bestest friend can't stand the Magic Glowy TARDIS Heart stuff.
Yeah, that only worked for me because it was set up in Boomtown -- if it'd just come out of nowhere, I'd have said, "pull the other one, it's got bells on."
I would probably have been fine with it if it'd meant something other than "and now Pompadour is magically the person best suited to shag the Doctor."
I can go with it because it's essential to the whole thing, which is in turn essential to showing us something of the Doctor that we've never really seen before. If it's going to show us a love story, he needs to be in love and whatnot. And it gives us some really good insight into his brain.
Well, insight into his curious lack of brain, more like (sorry, I can't get over him going back through the fireplace at the end -- take the TARDIS, moron!).
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-09 08:14 am (UTC)I think I worked that out. Belatedly. Umm. I think he really honestly thinks it will work because he thinks he fixed the connection properly.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-09 08:16 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-09 08:22 am (UTC)And yeah, it'd fit more. And also I suppose tie to all those lines about dodgy repairs.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-09 07:02 pm (UTC)Wow, he really is just like a human guy sometimes.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-09 07:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 08:19 am (UTC)I think I'm just burned out by Rusty telling me it was. That and people who ship them and say it WAS Love At First Sight cos she's his soulmate eternal lifebond whatsit. *emos*
Well, I don't think that he was a complete twat. Mostly, I think that he was stupid at the end and incredibly reckless throughout (and while he's usually somewhat reckless, this is the first time that he's been so reckless with Rose, so it did stand out).
Poor, poor Rose... Last two eps she's been hit by stuff that contradicts every impression he's given her, though I have to wonder why she never seems to have considered that maybe he's less perfect than she'd like to think. She'll have to get over him or she'll be sad for ever and that would hurt liek woah.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 08:41 am (UTC)Ah, I never put much authority in what the author says, whether or not they happen to be 'on my side'. I figure if it didn't come through in the finished product, it doesn't count. I mean, Russell thought that the hotel scene in QAF2 meant that Stuart and Vince were over each other as possible shagging partners, and I can't see that in the scene even knowing that it's what he intended.
Also, eek, the soulmate word. Dawson's Creek has forever tainted that word for me. Now, 'soulmate' means 'that person that I abuse on a regular basis, that special someone I only desire when I don't have them, that one person who brings out the very worst qualities in me and turns me into a raging manipulative asshole'.
I think more along the lines of the movie Ever After -- there are people out there who are wonderful 'matches' for each other, but there is no such thing as the One Perfect Love.
Poor, poor Rose... Last two eps she's been hit by stuff that contradicts every impression he's given her, though I have to wonder why she never seems to have considered that maybe he's less perfect than she'd like to think. She'll have to get over him or she'll be sad for ever and that would hurt liek woah.
She was nineteen and he showed her the stars. Now she's seeing what's there when the glitter has faded. She'll either get over him or try something drastic to try to regain what she used to have. But I can understand why it's taken her so long -- he's done a lot to make her think that this was special, maybe even unique. Until recently, he hadn't really done anything to make her question that assumption (well, not anything that a starstruck girl couldn't explain away, at least).
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 04:41 pm (UTC)omg nine'n'rose r soulmates! *hides under a thing*
But I can understand why it's taken her so long -- he's done a lot to make her think that this was special, maybe even unique. Until recently, he hadn't really done anything to make her question that assumption (well, not anything that a starstruck girl couldn't explain away, at least).
And he has changed, is the thing. She used to be the centre of his wee tiny universe and now she isn't and woe for her. :S
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-08 05:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-09 07:42 am (UTC)Hee, I so almost added, "Hey, maybe you can see them as soulmates after all," to that when I was posting it.
But I can understand why it's taken her so long -- he's done a lot to make her think that this was special, maybe even unique. Until recently, he hadn't really done anything to make her question that assumption (well, not anything that a starstruck girl couldn't explain away, at least).
And he has changed, is the thing. She used to be the centre of his wee tiny universe and now she isn't and woe for her. :S
And he didn't help with all his "I'm the same man!" comments in the cutaway, though I can understand why he wanted her to stop thinking he was a body-snatching alien who'd offed the 'real' Doctor. He's been telling her that he's the same and she's been having to learn differently by seeing his new reactions to things.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-09 08:20 am (UTC)I think to him - and especially to Ten who is more comfortable with himself - it's not that big a deal. Yeah, he's seen how it weirds humans out, but we get the impression the regeneration before this was alone, and the Eighth Doctor didn't have to reconnect with anyone. So it's way back at Mel since he's had to explain this to a human he cares about and who's known the previous him. (Wow, this fandom messes pronouns, doesn't it?) I suppose he thinks it's like how Rose is not expected to patiently explain why she only has one heart and why she doesn't regenerate? And he's terrified that she'll bugger off. Well, Ten seems less worried about that, but he certainly doesn't want to lose someone just because his biology's a bit fancy.