butterfly: (Hero -- Mickey)
[personal profile] butterfly

aka Why didn't Rose Martha Jack Sarah Jane save the day in "Journey's End"?

Short and sweet answer: because series four was Donna's series. Though the other companions provide set-up or help solve the more minor issues that pop up after the climax, that baby belonged to Donna (and the Doctor). Just like, while Jack provided the set-up for "Last of the Time Lords" (by forcing them to the end of the universe to meet the Professor), it was Martha's (and the Doctor's) show.

Rose was never going to be the hero of "Journey's End". She was already the hero in both "Parting of the Ways" and "Doomsday" (her two as main companion). Martha was never going to be the hero of "Journey's End" -- she was the hero in "Last of the Time Lords" when she was the main companion.

They weren't the Big Hero, however, each of them provided something vital.

Rose: established the danger. She's the one who came to Donna in the parallel world and warned the Doctor and Donna about what was about to happen. She contributed to the creation of Ten II and the DoctorDonna in the course of fulfilling her own character arc. She also saved Donna's mother and granddad from death by Dalek, which is nice for them and Donna.

Jack: Used the Rift to help 'call' the Doctor. Shot the Dalek who shot the Doctor. Shot the Supreme Dalek. Was willing to use the warp star to blow up the Crucible but ultimately didn't do anything there. Had Gwen and Ianto help with taking Earth home.

Martha: Provided the Doctor's phone number. Was willing to use the Osterhagen key to blow up the Earth but didn't.

Sarah Jane: Used Mr. Smith to help call the Doctor. Provided the warp star that didn't get the chance to blow up. Used Mr. Smith and K-9 to help put the Earth back in place.

"Journey's End" was the DoctorDonna show, as series four has been all along. The other characters were supporting players in their drama (as S1/2 was the Doctor/Rose show and S3 was the Doctor & Martha show).

Mostly, the other characters hung around to service their character arcs. Martha proved that she was over her unrequited love angst by being so thrilled to see that the Doctor had found Rose (this also answered Rose's question from "School Reunion" about whether or not the Doctor would forget her). Jack started to move on from the trauma of the Torchwood series two finale by recruiting Martha and Mickey (incidentally, Mickey completes his own 'over Rose' journey here) -- also, this episode showed us the people that he'd told us about in the last series finale. Sarah Jane, having established a need to move on with her life in "School Reunion", shows that she has with her love for Luke and her desire to return to him.

Rose, of course, completes a whole lot of her own dangling character threads -- she returns to the Doctor for the third time and (third time's the charm) gets to keep him. She learns that she's not been forgotten. She also gets a whole new life and journey to start -- a new beginning with her new Doctor.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 01:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kita0610.livejournal.com
People were complaining about the other Companions not saving the Universe? Really??

Ugh. People are stupid.

OTOH, I will not ever get over Jack/Dr. as OTP. Man, Jack just loves him so much it's painful.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:17 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I will not ever get over Jack/Dr. as OTP. Man, Jack just loves him so much it's painful.

True and... fairly literal!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 01:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
You know, I have issues with the ending myself (though the imaginary world in my head where Ten II and Rose are air pirates are helping) but seriously. That is a strange thing to complain about.

WEREN'T THEY ALL BITCHING ABOUT HOW CLEARLY DONNA WAS GOING TO BE SIDELINED? WTF.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:15 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
You know, I have issues with the ending myself (though the imaginary world in my head where Ten II and Rose are air pirates are helping) but seriously. That is a strange thing to complain about.

Air pirates rule!

I have... no issues with the finale. I am of a rare breed and may have, in fact, eaten from RTD's brain at some point. I don't know. It gave me everything I could ever want. Which makes me feel bad that other people are so upset/sad/angry about it. Especially the last twenty minutes, which I could watch for, like, all of eternity.

WEREN'T THEY ALL BITCHING ABOUT HOW CLEARLY DONNA WAS GOING TO BE SIDELINED? WTF.

I do recall a certain amount of fear that Donna wouldn't prove to be important enough. But from different people, I think.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
THEY DO.

I don't really care if people agree/disagree with me on it - I can see why people would disagree. I just find some complaints crazy.

I do recall a certain amount of fear that Donna wouldn't prove to be important enough. But from different people, I think.
I'm glad I've mostly stopped paying attention. Because this fandom still has the ability to drive me nuts.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:20 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
This fandom drives everyone mad, I think.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
I blame the whole forty years of bitterness thing.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:23 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
After seeing how quickly the website TWOP turned into a pit of bitter hatred (less than five years)... yes. Forty years of that could only make things exponentially worse.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
And some of the fans had control of the canon via books and stuff and that changed when RTD took over so... wank.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:29 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Indeed. Some of the 'bigger name' wank, like that Lawrence... somebody... person who totally hates Moffat and Cornell and (randomly) Neil Gaiman (WTF?), is a bit eye-opening.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
omg Neil Gaiman should write and episode of Doctor Who.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:34 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
But then I would be tempted to watch it. Can the awesome of Gaiman overcome the suck of Moffat?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
YES. THAT HAS TO BE A TRUTH IN THIS WORLD.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:38 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
YOU ARE PROBABLY RIGHT.

If Moffat can managed to suck in the current Who, Gaiman can probably rock in Moffat's Who.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
TRUE WORDS.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:36 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shaela
I don’t think there’s a simple, single reason for the dissatisfaction. I’m one of the people who was dissatisfied, but I doubt that my reasons are particularly common. Until “The Stolen Earth” aired, I didn’t believe that I was watching the DoctorDonna show. And we aren’t, anymore. I think that’s why I didn’t believe it—a story where one of the characters is completely unsympathetic (to me, obviously) and the other changes on a yearly basis doesn’t interest me. I’d hoped that wasn’t the story the writers were telling.

(I’ll admit, I wasn’t all that worried about Donna being sidelined. I adored her, but I didn’t see her as any more important than Jack or Martha.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
Yeah, I was hoping for a different outcome. However, I never doubted for a second that Donna would play an important role.

(As a whole, I don't think so either. But within season four? She was more important than Jack or Martha.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:58 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shaela
(Actually, I take it back. “Turn Left” implied that she was the reason the Doctor didn’t commit suicide in “The Runaway Bride,” which makes her pretty frigging important. Unfortunately, “Journey’s End” turned her into yet another person the Doctor has lost. *sigh*)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arabian.livejournal.com
Seriously, I just so love your posts on this show because I find myself just nodding my head in agreement whilst reading them. Every word.

(Oh, and sorta ot: You responded to a post or two in one of my threads on my lj and I didn't get involved because you said exactly what I wanted to say so eloquently that I was glad to let you have the last word there.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 02:11 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Thanks!

And regarding the OT: I almost never do things like that, but it frustrates me when people ignore the canon text. I don't care if people hate the Doctor, but it bugs me when they hate him for things that he didn't do. I really loved your posts about the show, btw.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 03:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arabian.livejournal.com
Yes. I like that poster a lot from another fandom, but we just don't really see eye-to-eye on Who and I didn't want to go head to head with her again on a Who related issue, so I was so happy to see you so eloquently do so. Thank you.

And I'm glad you like the posts. If you're following my rewatch reviews, I swear "The Unquiet Dead" will get done this week. I swear! (Oh, and when I get to some episodes, I totally want to quote and link to some of your analysis if you don't mind to further illustrate my points, because again, we just seem to see this show in such a similar way.)

ETA: Another ot ... I put up a request at Time & Chips about any Rose mention/music/connection in "Blink" and you were mentioned as someone who would definitively know.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 07:33 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
And I'm glad you like the posts. If you're following my rewatch reviews, I swear "The Unquiet Dead" will get done this week. I swear!

Sweet!

Oh, and when I get to some episodes, I totally want to quote and link to some of your analysis if you don't mind to further illustrate my points, because again, we just seem to see this show in such a similar way.

Feel free. I'm totally flattered.

Another ot ... I put up a request at Time & Chips about any Rose mention/music/connection in "Blink" and you were mentioned as someone who would definitively know.

Hmm. "Blink" is kinda hard because I remember feeling very reminded of Rose while watching it, but the things that I would point out aren't clear, unarguable things -- Sally Sparrow reminds me of Rose and the Doctor's reaction to meeting Sally ("What's your name?") reminds me of when he first met Rose. Plus, the big emphasis on hand-holding and the Doctor's reaction (how everyone has someone and his someone isn't there). But there aren't any mentions of her or anything that I could point out in the music.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 08:30 am (UTC)
ext_1771: Joe Flanigan looking A-Dorable. (Default)
From: [identity profile] monanotlisa.livejournal.com
Absolutely, yes -- this was Donna's season, as it should have been.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-17 10:10 am (UTC)
ext_1771: Joe Flanigan looking A-Dorable. (Default)
From: [identity profile] monanotlisa.livejournal.com
She was! I was unimpressed in The Runaway Bride, but then, in the actual season, I liked her from the get-go. She was adventurous, resourceful, and kind; plus, her & Ten's dynamics were just wonderful.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 07:34 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Catherine and David had so much chemistry -- I loved their interactions. They were great to watch together.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-19 04:33 pm (UTC)
nic: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nic
And this is exactly WHY I wish Rose hadn't come back as part of this arc. If only it could've been a Christmas special, or one of the 2009 'one offs' - something where she could have been the main focus.

Because as it stands, the story still seems unfinished, or sidelined, and that isn't fair to the journey that Rose and the Doctor had.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-08-02 06:21 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Hmm. I guess that it's hard for me to think of stories in terms of 'fair'. That Rose and that their particular arc deserves a certain level of focus is not something that I can identify with.

This may be, in part, because I got way more with the Doctor and Rose than I'm used to getting with the characters that I ship. Rose is no longer the heroine of Doctor Who and thus didn't get the major character focus, but she was still (to me) very much the heroine of her own show that was going on off in the parallel world. Her character was strong and complete and made sense, but didn't get as much focus in terms of the story as Donna, the heroine of the season.

I guess that I don't expect as much in that regard from shows and that's probably part of why I wasn't disappointed?

I don't think there's any other storyline that Russell could have written with Rose, because I don't think that he wants to kill her off (even if it had been by old age), so the only difference would have been in how much screentime she had, not so much in the actual ending. If that makes sense?

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