Bob and Rose: Stayed up to finish watching it.

[butterfly]

Street corner. Two o'clock in the morning. Getting a taxi home. Did Paul Cornell watch Bob and Rose? Or is that a line that RTD slipped in?

Another repeated theme -- like with Nathan in QaF, it's unrequited love interest Holly who brings the two people involved in the unconventionally romantic relationship back together again. She finally gets it. She understands love and that frees her. She spent so much time standing still and trying to hold Bob in place with her. But we all move forward and trying to stop that just causes pain.

I love the way that Russell writes about love and... connection. It doesn't matter whether it's two best friends who don't shag, a gay man and straight woman (who definitely do) or, of course, the Doctor and Rose -- it's about two people connecting on a fundamental level. About two people seeing something in someone else that other people miss. A kind of bone-deep and yet nearly instinctive connection (implied in QaF when Hazel talks to Stuart about how Vince came home from school one day talking about this boy... this Irish boy and how they've been that close ever since; shown flat-out in the Bob/Rose and Doctor/Rose relationships). They're all distinctly different relationships, but the similarities that they share pull together this particular way of looking at love that I find quite appealing.

Bob never stops being gay. He likes looking at men. He's attracted to men. But he falls in love with Rose and he doesn't need anything else. Holly and Bob's ex-boyfriend try to frame that in terms of a sacrifice, that he's giving up something essential to be with Rose. But it becomes very clear to us during the period when he and Rose are broken up that, now that he's met her, he loses far more by not being with her. That emotional connection, that love, is more important. He loves Rose. He is in love with Rose. And that's enough for him.

Again, repeated theme -- Stuart in QaF has his friend, Vince. They don't shag. Vince is practically the only man in the city that Stuart hasn't shagged. What he gets from Vince, that emotional connection, is much more vital to his well-being than all the men that he sleeps with. Like Bob, during the period of time that Stuart is not seeing Vince, he's absolutely miserable. The emotional connection is more important than sex. Having Vince's friendship means more to Stuart than every naked man in the world.

That same kind of relationship has been, I believe, shown in Doctor Who with the Doctor and Rose. A spark and connection. An emotional bond. Friendship. Attraction. Something special. Rose is special to the Doctor, as Vince is special to Stuart and Rose is special to Bob. What that means in the long run depends on how long the run is. I don't think that Rose is the only person that the Doctor has or will ever love. But he loves her now. And that matters. Everyone dies. Everything turns to dust. Everything ends. That only makes the moments that we can have all the more precious.

I've never understood the great rush to have the Doctor get over Rose after Series Two. He's lived over nine-hundred years. He can take a couple of years mourning the loss of the life he never believed he could have. Loving again doesn't mean falling in love the second that you've lost someone. Just because I think it would be tacky for him to fall in love a year or two after he's lost someone dear to him doesn't mean that I think he should never love again. He loved her. He lost her. That matters.

When you find that connection with another person, on whatever level that it falls on, it's something beautiful. Our ability to connect, to communicate, with other people is what makes us human (something vividly illustrated, actually, in Russell's most recent DW episode, which is about what happens when that communication is subverted, copied, and mocked). And when we manage it, it can be the most powerful thing that exists.

(I've thought about doing a comparison of QaF to DW, full-out, but I need the rest of the series... and now that I've seen B&R, it would have to be part of the comparison, because it just fits in so well. I need to see the rest of RTD's stuff. Casanova (with David T.) and The Second Coming (which has Chris E. and Lesley S. in it!) -- is there anything else that he's created?)

Comments

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, now I have to see Bob and Rose, too! And I've been meaning to check out The Second Coming. Definitely see Casanova if you haven't -- it's completely adorable.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

You really must! It's utterly adorable.

I've seen the credits for Casanova and it looks really cute.

[larissa-j.livejournal.com]

Casanova will break your heart. I have a hard time watching it actually because it is so sad.

I will say that when you watch it, it will once again confirm RTD's status as an OTP writer.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Casanova will break your heart. I have a hard time watching it actually because it is so sad.

I don't mind a good heart-breaking in service of a well-done story. But it's nice to be prepared going in!

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

Do you know if B&R is on DVD in the US at all?

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yes (http://www.amazon.com/Bob-Rose-Complete-Alan-Davies/dp/B00013D53A/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1213663314&sr=8-1). But it's got different music than the original.

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

Fantastic! ::adds to Blockbuster queue::

[larissa-j.livejournal.com]

YES! This is RTD! Thank you.

I feel like I've been beating my head against a wall for almost two years when I've said that the Doctor just moving on was not very RTD and that RTD writes OTPs.

It's not stupid to ship an OTP in RTD's Who or any RTD story.

sheesh.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

He is such an OTP shipper. He loves creating pairings where two people just fit (and are often misunderstood by those around them because they're unconventional). I mean, just watching QaF and then DW I got that feeling, but B&R makes three shows where he's created that same kind of connection between a pair of people. It's clearly something that he adores doing.

Which makes choosing 'Rose Tyler' as a name for DW all the more fascinating, because that combines Rose Cooper from B&R with Vince Tyler from QaF, and she performs basically the same kind of role in the relationship that Rose and Vince do in theirs, the 'normal' one that The Doctor/Bob/Stuart realizes is special even if no one else does -- something could also be said for how Gwen Cooper is written in relationship to Jack. RTD has said that using familiar names gives him a handle on the blank page.

[larissa-j.livejournal.com]

Exactly and this is why I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall most of the time in the fandom. They know who the head writer is. They know of his other shows and the relationships in them and yet they insist that the show must, must, MUST be a certain way regardless of the head writer's style. It is insane.

*rolls eyes*

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

It does have the touch of willful ignorance about it. Though, I suppose that a lot of these are the same people who say that I should ignore Moffat's previous record because that's no clue as to what he might write in the future, so there's a consistency there.

There's a rather large 'the author is dead' contingent in this fandom, and they have the right to hold that point of view, of course, but it's a very academic way of looking at art that works a lot better if the author is actually dead. Otherwise, the people who pay attention to the author's views and what that non-dead author says tend to be better at guessing what he might write next.

[shinyopals.livejournal.com]

And now I have to see this! (The only other RTD thing I've seen is Casanova, so it's about time, really.)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

It's so cute. I'd recommend QaF as well. It's another brilliant character drama and Vince Tyler is a massive Doctor Who fan, which is adorable.

[jedi_of_urth]

I started watching that a while back but couldn't find the whole thing, but just from the first episode...

This this is like watching Doctor/Rose Mark I, because there were so many parallels with Bob/Rose. Plus the 'two AM on a street corner getting a taxi home' bit. This is the way RTD writes, he writes love stories, unconventional and not always understood by some, but beautiful and powerful and...life-changing. He's as much a hopeless romantic as any of us, sometimes even more, and he's the one writing these stories for us; and he clearly believe in true love in a way so many TV writers aren't willing to commit to.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

this is like watching Doctor/Rose Mark I, because there were so many parallels with Bob/Rose.

The parallels only strengthen when you get to watch the rest of it. It's like... the Doctor and Rose are Bob and Rose, on the epic scale. Bob/the Doctor thought that he knew exactly who he was, when along comes this woman named Rose who completely reshapes his life and teaches him what it means to fall in love. In both cases, she also brings in a touch of domestic to his life. Because of her, he wants all of these things that he's never really thought about before. She becomes home to him.

Russell is definitely a complete romantic.

[solielle.livejournal.com]

Did Paul Cornell watch Bob and Rose? Or is that a line that RTD slipped in?

I like to think that Paul Cornell was tipping his hat to RTD. And I'm quite tickled that the Doctor/Rose relationship has, in fandom, so much come to be defined as that 2AM street corner thing. It's so Russell.

I'm surprised you haven't seen Casanova yet *boots up her hard drive*. I think it ties into your view of RTD's take on relationships. Csanova is always a cad, but you never doubt that he loves one woman, Henriette. It doesn't matter if he can't have her, if he sleeps with other people: he loves her, and she's his driving force. His last moment.

Russell is quite fond of the "love and lost" style of relationships. That's slightly reassuring for the next few episode of Doctor Who.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I like to think that Paul Cornell was tipping his hat to RTD. And I'm quite tickled that the Doctor/Rose relationship has, in fandom, so much come to be defined as that 2AM street corner thing. It's so Russell.

It really is. He definitely creates a certain vibe in a relationship that defines it as 'OTP'. Regardless of whether or not I'm an OTP viewer (which I am sometimes and sometimes I multiship -- it depends on the relationships in question), RTD is definitely an OTP writer.

Casanova is always a cad, but you never doubt that he loves one woman, Henriette. It doesn't matter if he can't have her, if he sleeps with other people: he loves her, and she's his driving force. His last moment.

I'm definitely not shocked by that. Russell's feelings on love definitely come through in his writing.