butterfly: (Time Lord Science)
[personal profile] butterfly

Because Russell T Davies seemed to feel that the show needed to have a character who would fall in (unrequited) love with the Doctor, thus illustrating the difference between Rose and everyone else. Did it?

In some superficial ways, Martha is quite a lot like Rose -- pretty, clever Londoner girls, both of them. They even get some echo dialogue in the early episodes. The show puts them in comparable situations frequently. There are both parallels to draw and contrasts to mark.

Mostly, though, there's the Doctor.

I wasn't surprised about Martha's emotional arc. And, though it was heavy-handed at times ("He had to fall in love with a human... and it wasn't me."), I actually do agree with RTD that it was necessary. In order to establish someone as One Thing, you need to establish someone else as Other Thing. And, in this particular context, he wanted to make a distinction between one character and the entire history and future of characters to come.

Yes -- Martha was, in part, all about how special Rose was. Which sucks if you hate Rose. If you hate Rose Tyler, then a series of television that is basically saying, "Yeah, that blonde chick? One of a kind," is pretty much guaranteed to piss you off (and, of course, to the person desperately missing Rose, having episode after episode point out how irreplaceable she was is hardly going to help in the process of getting over her).

But... as the show makes very, very clear -- Rose isn't special in the ultimate 'best person ever' way. She's special in the 'best person for this one specific character/relationship' way. The Doctor writes out that she's 'perfect Rose' and, to him, she is. Now, was Rose actually portrayed as a 'perfect' character?

*bursts out laughing*

She could be petty and jealous. She wandered off. She had a tendency to throw herself into dangerous situations for personal reasons. She nearly destroyed the world because she couldn't listen to instructions. Rose Tyler was flawed.

In a lot of ways, Martha is a 'better' person. Higher class (which matters to some people). More education. Better at staying put and following instructions. Tends to do the right thing. Not so apt to get into trouble. Again, not a perfect person (she, too, had the flaw of 'jealousy'), but from an objective standpoint, probably a better bet to make. But, as they say, the heart has reasons that reason cannot know.

Now, Martha is not the first time that New Who made the distinction between Rose and Other Companions. In fact, every time that the Doctor took on someone else, it was made clear that the Doctor and Rose were a unit and other folk were nice but not necessary (something that Jack took much more easily than Mickey). Rose is the person who invites Adam and Jack on board and is also clearly the impetus for the Doctor inviting Sarah Jane on board.

There are two pre-S3 examples of the difference between Rose and Everyone Else. The first is in The Parting of the Ways, when the Doctor sends Rose home, keeps her out of danger, while everyone else is involved in the fighting (made very clear when he calls her over to help him with the wiring and takes her out of the 'active fighter' count). The second is in School Reunion and the conversation in the street that ends with the Doctor telling Rose that she won't be left behind and very nearly telling her that he loves her ("Imagine watching that happen to someone you-").

And SR, of course, has Sarah Jane -- who serves as our stand-in for Old School Companions. The Doctor very clearly has both admiration and affection for Sarah Jane (just as he does for Martha), but he's utterly thrown by the notion that he was her 'life' and that she couldn't move on without him (we see this echoed when Martha says that the Doctor is 'everything' to her, while she's basically a side-note to him -- a fun, smart, lovable side-note, but a side-note nonetheless). And both Sarah Jane and Martha have to choose to say good-bye to the Doctor in order to start getting over him.

Back when S3 was first airing, I pondered the notion that RTD was using Martha to 'ramp down' from the idea of the Doctor as a sexual/romantic person. Grace was the ramp up, a person that the Doctor was interested in who liked him not his life; Rose was the bridge (the apex; the climax; the transformation), someone he adored who adored both him and the life he offered; and Martha was someone who liked the life he offered, thought he was attractive, but didn't seem to know or like him very much as a person. Going right from Grace and Rose to a Doctor/companion relationship that was completely lacking in romance/sexuality would either be a bit of a harsh break or possibly lead to confusion. So, in order to make his divisions clear, RTD put in an intermediary position where the Doctor was clearly still a sexual/romantic figure ('lost prince') but had no interest in pursuing sex or romance (and I find it so fascinating that both of the 'unsuitable' choices were doctors -- it may show that the Doctor needs someone who complements him, not someone who echoes him).

RTD appears to believe that Martha was a necessary character to show the difference between Rose and the rest of the Doctor's companions. In balance, though I think her part could have been more strongly written, I agree.



ETA: In the end, I think the real problem with Martha is that they only had a six-episode story to tell with her (Smith & Jones through Gridlock and Utopia through Last of the Time Lords). She would have worked better if she hadn't stayed the whole season.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-23 01:29 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Cos Rose never made little side comments like that she?

To the effect of saying, "Oh, don't listen to him babble, just do as he says." Not so much.

And I'm sorry but did you not see Series 3 where she falls in love with him?

Are you referring to the lust she acquired in Smith and Jones or the scary faith she developed in Gridlock? Either way, it doesn't come across as a very genuine love for the person that the Doctor is -- she snarks about his lost love, gets pissy when they're trapped together, and never shows much joy in just his company. That doesn't add up to love for me -- it adds up to a crush on the ideal that she's made him out to be.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-23 10:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] magicallaw.livejournal.com
Your analysis of this show is quite confusing. In S1 and 2 you are quite happy with understanding what is anviled in and shoved in our face, but seem incapable of getting the undertones of what is going on eg. the Doctor as a father figure for example. But in S3 the anvils of Marthas love for the Doctor, you choose to ignore it and interpret it as something different.

I love Martha, and I can't say I wasn't fond of the unrequited storyline, in fact at times it thoroughly pissed me off. However, you can't deny it wasn't there.

What I really fail to understand is a lot of peoples inability to grasp the fact that you can fall in love so easily. Trust me, it happens. Usually it sucks, just like it did with Martha. But it does happen. Maybe you think love is easy and rosy, but it crops up at the really most unfortunate times.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-23 03:07 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Your analysis of this show is quite confusing. In S1 and 2 you are quite happy with understanding what is anviled in and shoved in our face, but seem incapable of getting the undertones of what is going on eg. the Doctor as a father figure for example.

What does the Doctor do that's father-figure-like? Try to protect Rose in The Parting of the Ways? Because that's also classic love interest. From the very beginning, Rose and the Doctor are set up as equals, not just in words, but in actions. The only moment that strikes me as attempting to play the 'possible father figure' card is when the Doctor touches her cheek in Father's Day, but only because Pete himself did a similar action earlier in the episode -- touching someone's cheek is not restricted to use between fathers and daughters.

But in S3 the anvils of Marthas love for the Doctor, you choose to ignore it and interpret it as something different.

Oh, the anvils, I got. Whether or not they add up to a genuine love of the Doctor as a person, that's where we disagree.

I love Martha, and I can't say I wasn't fond of the unrequited storyline, in fact at times it thoroughly pissed me off. However, you can't deny it wasn't there.

I didn't. I just don't think that lust, liking the fellow's ride, and being impressed by him add up to love. I don't think that Martha, ten years from now, will still think that she was 'in love' with the Doctor.

What I really fail to understand is a lot of peoples inability to grasp the fact that you can fall in love so easily. Trust me, it happens. Usually it sucks, just like it did with Martha. But it does happen. Maybe you think love is easy and rosy, but it crops up at the really most unfortunate times.

My mom is living with a man that she started dating while he was still married. Just because I don't think infatuation is the same as love doesn't mean that I think love is easy, rosy, and predictable (in fact, I call love unpredictable in one of comments in this very post).

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-23 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] magicallaw.livejournal.com
I'm not saying that the Doctor was necessarily a father figure to Rose, but it is certainly what she was looking for when she started travelling with him. The quest for such figure is prominent throughout both series' and ends nicely with the fact that Pete actually rescues her from the void.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-24 05:52 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I'm not saying that the Doctor was necessarily a father figure to Rose, but it is certainly what she was looking for when she started travelling with him. The quest for such figure is prominent throughout both series' and ends nicely with the fact that Pete actually rescues her from the void.

Well, that's a point of view. It's completely different from my point of view, but... well, there you go.

Is part of Rose's 'damage' that she lost her father at a young age? Of course. But that doesn't mean that she's looking for another. She has a desire to see and know her own father, Peter Alan Tyler, not reinvent him in someone else.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-24 03:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katesutton.livejournal.com
She has a desire to see and know her own father, Peter Alan Tyler, not reinvent him in someone else.

Thank you. It's always seemed to be to be a very facile reading of the text- this idea that Rose lost her father, the Doctor is far older than her, and therefore, he is a father figure to her. What about how they actually behave towards one another? Their relationship has a significant sexual aspect almost from the moment they meet. She doesn't want him to take care of her or solve her problems. If he fits into any stereotypical role with her, it's initially a classic romantic one-he's the dashing man of mystery who sweeps her away from her mundane life. Now, as she said, he's so much more than that. But that's definitely one way it began.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-24 04:01 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
It's always seemed to be to be a very facile reading of the text- this idea that Rose lost her father, the Doctor is far older than her, and therefore, he is a father figure to her. What about how they actually behave towards one another?

Oh, don't be silly. The way the characters act is utterly irrelevant to the way the audience is supposed to react to them *grins*

I find it odd, too. Rose gets put into this 'Electra' complex slot simply because she's someone who lost her father. Rose certainly doesn't show any hostility towards her mother nor sexual desire for her father ("For you, there... it's like the Bermuda Triangle."). Nor does Rose show 'penis envy'.

Also, Freud was both a) full of crap and b) working during a time when women were considered the 'inferior' sex and so, naturally, all little girls really wanted was to be little boys instead. Product of his times (also, he doctored his study results and so I have absolutely no respect for him as a social scientist).

*dusts off hands*

Their relationship has a significant sexual aspect almost from the moment they meet. She doesn't want him to take care of her or solve her problems.

Right -- as we see in Father's Day, she doesn't respond to her actual father in any of the same ways that she responds to the Doctor (she's much younger with Pete than the Doctor, more willing to let him sacrifice himself for her than she ever would be with the Doctor, who she'll fight like a mountain cat to protect).

And the language that she uses towards the Doctor is always a language of equals, where the possibility of them being a pair is only checked by him possibly not being interested due to being an alien and her own attachment to Mickey.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-24 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katesutton.livejournal.com
I refuse to take Freud-related theories seriously. Dude MADE THINGS UP. Sorry, not doing it.

she's much younger with Pete than the Doctor, more willing to let him sacrifice himself for her than she ever would be with the Doctor, who she'll fight like a mountain cat to protect

Exactly. The two of them are in very different categories in her head. She doesn't want Pete to sacrifice himself to save her, but on some level she accepts his belief that he's her dad and it's his job. Not ever with the Doctor. She will NOT let him send her away and keep her safe.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-25 03:46 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I refuse to take Freud-related theories seriously. Dude MADE THINGS UP. Sorry, not doing it.

And the funny, funny thing is the person who brought up Freud mentioned that they didn't believe in his work either. They just felt that Russell must, because Rose had such an obvious Electra complex. The amount of 'dude, the fuck?' that those words induced can't be quantified.

The two of them are in very different categories in her head. She doesn't want Pete to sacrifice himself to save her, but on some level she accepts his belief that he's her dad and it's his job. Not ever with the Doctor. She will NOT let him send her away and keep her safe.

*nods*

The difference can be pretty easily seen in the difference between her resigned acceptance in Father's Day and her determination in PotW (or TSP or DD).

(no subject)

Date: 2007-09-27 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 04nbod.livejournal.com
If seasons one and two made the doctor a father figure that would be sickening. He looked after rose, he protected her which is what we expect people to do if they care about us anyway regardless of family connections. Martha had a crush on the doctor from the very first 'genetic transfer' that is not love. Her affections where unrequited but martha doesn't have that much experience with relationships(as per tish's comments in the lazarus experiment) so you have to wonder.

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