Doctor Who and Chloe Sullivan

[butterfly]

So, Chloe (from Smallville) has entered my vocabulary.

When Martha was all flirty in the bedroom (and the Doctor was oblivious) and then blew out the candle in a huff, I said, "Oh, honey, don't pull a Chloe."

This dates back to seasons one and two of Smallville. Clark Kent was interested in Lana Lang. Chloe was interested in Clark. After something bad happened to Chloe (Clark had, earlier in the season, been made aware of her feelings), Clark asked her to a dance (Prom? Homecoming?). He leaves her at the dance (right before a kiss) in order to save lives (she doesn't know about his powers at the time).

Anyway, after the dance, Chloe goes to him and tell him that she thinks they'd be better off as friends. He agrees and then leaves to go search for his missing father, while Chloe collapses against a tree, her lie clear in her tears. And then she holds it against him for the rest of the season. She pulled the friendship card, but acts as though he deliberately broke her heart. Her jealousy of his feelings for Lana eventually culminates in betraying him to Lionel Luthor (Lex Luthor's father).

"Pulling a Chloe" is when you pretend that you only want friendship and then are pissed when the other person takes you at your word.

Martha knows that the Doctor isn't interested in her. She's told him that she's only interested in humans. But when he shows no interest in her in the bedroom, she gets offended.

Now, emotions are emotions. The problem is dishonesty and how hiding feelings can lead to problems later on (now, on SV, all ends relatively well, as Clark forgives Chloe for betraying him and she forgives him for... not telling her soon enough that he'd hooked up with Lana, who she knew he was interested in).

Right now, Martha's feelings aren't affecting anything major. Hopefully, they won't. I like Martha, but I liked Chloe a whole lot in Season One. Season Two almost completely ruined her character for me. Luckily, Martha is older than Chloe was, so she'll probably be able to handle things better.

Comments

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

And then she holds it against him for the rest of the season. She pulled the friendship card, but acts as though he deliberately broke her heart.

Oh, geez. I love Chloe, but I didn't at that time, and it's for that reason and that reason alone. Grrrr. I really can't stand that. Girl, you told him things were A-OK! What did you expect?

And this is why I'd really prefer that Martha bagged a new guy stat and got over this crush on the Doctor. Not that I don't understand the crush, but when he's made it clear he's totally and completely uninterested, not to mention still hung up on someone else, getting in a huff about him talking about her is... yeah.

Of course, you and I are in a different camp from those who are angry with the Doctor for hurting Martha and being oblivious to her feelings. To which I say, bwah? How is he supposed to know, considering what both he and she have said. I mean, I winced on Martha's behalf when it happened, but I understood.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Oh, geez. I love Chloe, but I didn't at that time, and it's for that reason and that reason alone. Grrrr. I really can't stand that. Girl, you told him things were A-OK! What did you expect?

It was... intensely frustrating. Chloe! Clark can't read your mind! If you, his dear friend, tell him something, he will probably believe you.

Of course, you and I are in a different camp from those who are angry with the Doctor for hurting Martha and being oblivious to her feelings. To which I say, bwah? How is he supposed to know, considering what both he and she have said. I mean, I winced on Martha's behalf when it happened, but I understood.

He really was completely clear at the end of Smith and Jones, I thought. And she told him that she wasn't interested. The Doctor isn't going to assume that she's lying to him.

Plus, in the bed scene, he's so obviously not interested that it's almost painful. The look in his eyes for most of the scene is incredibly businesslike and cool (particularly when he first plops down onto the bed). The only moment he softens is when he talks about Rose.

[mrv3000.livejournal.com]

The look in his eyes for most of the scene is incredibly businesslike and cool (particularly when he first plops down onto the bed).

And the look he gives her when he says, "you gonna stand there all night?" was *so* not romantic. :D

[juxtoppozed.livejournal.com]

Clark can't read your mind! If you, his dear friend, tell him something, he will probably believe you.

Especially when you're being completely nonchalant and "whatever" about it as *you* are breaking up with *him* and not the other way around. People who blamed that fiasco on Clark totally boggled my mind and obviously live in a fairy tale I've never read.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

I was fine with Martha being initially a little glamoured with the Doctor, but I don't like her crushing on him as much as she was in 3.02... I hope she gets over it, because I actually think Ten would play way better against someone who wasn't so interested.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I hope she gets over it, as well. It's a shame that she wasn't awake when the witch mentioned that Rose was the name in the Doctor's mind, because hearing that might have helped her along.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Martha knows that the Doctor isn't interested in her. She's told him that she's only interested in humans. But when he shows no interest in her in the bedroom, she gets offended.

Actually, I thought she got offended at something else altogether, and so did half of fandom, which is: "Rose would know what to do." Mind you, I thought the Doctor meant "Rose would know, and I don't", but the way Martha heard it, and a lot of viewers, was "Rose would know, and you don't". And that is definitely something to feel offended by. There is not much worse you can tell a new aquaintance than "Past Person In My Life would be so much better in this situation than you are".

Be honest: if in the early stages of their relationship the Doctor had said something like this to Rose - "Sarah Jane/Ace/Romana/Insert Absent Companion of Choice would know" - how would you have taken it?

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Actually, I thought she got offended at something else altogether, and so did half of fandom, which is: "Rose would know what to do." Mind you, I thought the Doctor meant "Rose would know, and I don't", but the way Martha heard it, and a lot of viewers, was "Rose would know, and you don't". And that is definitely something to feel offended by. There is not much worse you can tell a new aquaintance than "Past Person In My Life would be so much better in this situation than you are".

I just... hmm. It doesn't seem particularly fair to read offense into someone else's words. Maybe I have a different perspective because I actually always assume that people are either a) pretending to like me to be nice or b) only like me because they don't really know me, but in either case, I can't really hold it against them.

In this situation, the Doctor's words struck me as completely and solely about his own relationship with Rose, not about Martha at all (and it's not as though he was shooting down suggestions that Martha was making -- she was too busy thinking about lying next to him in bed to make any suggestions at that time. She was useful later on but, at that moment, not so much).

Be honest: if in the early stages of their relationship the Doctor had said something like this to Rose - "Sarah Jane/Ace/Romana/Insert Absent Companion of Choice would know" - how would you have taken it?

Depends on the situation. If something desperately needed blowing up, it would make damn good sense for him to wish for Ace to be there (Rose has many talents, but blowing things up isn't really one of them and I understand that it is one of Ace's). When a particular skill is needed, it makes sense to want the person who was good at that thing to be there.

Plus, the real thing that matters to me is Rose's reaction, which would vary depending on the time the statement was said. You specified early on, so she'd probably say something like, "Who was that, then?" since much was made of the fact that the Doctor hadn't so much as made a peep about previous companions before they ran into Sarah Jane. And then the Doctor would have explained and they would have had the School Reunion conversation early.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

In this situation, the Doctor's words struck me as completely and solely about his own relationship with Rose, not about Martha at all

He was pretty dismissive of Martha as well though


"Rose'd know..."Still, can't be helped, you're a novice. Take you back home tomorrow." I mean in the Doctor's mind it was just about missing Rose obviously, but in Martha's place I wouldn't have been thrilled at that moment either. Especially as it was the Doctor who invited her to travel with him, only to then bring up comparisons with his previous partner

[coneyislandbaby]

That was the time I went "Okay, so Lana's evil for accepting an invitation from a boy she likes who is unattached and Clark is evil for issuing the invitation to Lana and Chloe is everything perfect and doesn't deserve to be hurt even though neither Clark nor Lana have shown any sign of being able to read minds?" And realised Smallville fandom was insane.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Smallville fandom is nuts, definitely. Even the parts of it that I like can be a bit bonkers.

But... yeah. Even though I'm not thrilled that Lana broke up with Whitney via videotape, at that point, it actually was her best option. She couldn't go see him and a letter or a phone call would have been worse, more impersonal. I respect her for being honest about her feelings. Better than stringing Whitney along while knowing that she didn't love him anymore.

Clark was also very honest about his feelings in S2 -- he was in love with Lana and cared a great deal for Chloe, but it was pretty much friendship-based. Chloe is the one who was being disingenuous and pretending to feel only friendship when she wanted more.

And, as you say, neither Clark nor Lana can read minds.