More on Angel (spoilers)

[butterfly]

Because now I've had time to think.

Still really like it. There are places where it feels a bit rough, but I have hopes that they'll have that sorted out by the actual air date.

Now, onto actual spoilery stuff and my thoughts on various issues. And first I'll deal with the new things.

Eve: I still like her. I really like her, actually. She isn't Lilah, but I don't see her trying to be. She's... Eve. And really, with Lilah comes all of this baggage with Angel and Wesley that I can understand them not wanting to deal with. And her name actually implies things that Lilah's doesn't (though there's an interesting thought there - Lilah is close to Lilith, which (in some beliefs) was the name of the woman before Eve, the one that Adam refused because she was too headstrong, which led to the making of Eve from Adam's rib. Do the SP trust Eve more than they would Lilah and was she created out of something else? What is she? Is she a demon and thus the irony of being named of the human who came after the woman who became the mother of all demons? Also, I haven't read up on this stuff in a while, so I may be getting some of it wrong.)

Harmony: She works really well with the Angel team. She's funny and yet still sympathetic in her way. And yet still completely clueless in many ways. She has a lot of potential, especially with Spike in the mix. Love Mercedes, though. And now I'm glad they didn't stake her in Disharmony.

Spike: Well, with only ten seconds of time, who can guess where he'll go? Hee. I was glad that we got a chance to settle in with the old gang before bringing in Spike. Like that Wesley recognized him - good to see that Watcher training coming in handy. And I adored Harm's reaction. 'Blondy bear' is one of those things that never stops being funny.

Knox: Well, not so new, since he was in Home, but he's new enough. And he's so cute. I'm so glad that Joss recycles actors. Because. Knox. So cute. And only incidentally evil, really.

And now the I'll talk about what I thought of where they've taken the old crew.

Angel: He's a little darker than he was (not so much darker as... harder?). Had to be really, after killing his son. But he's still very Angel. Adored the scene in the alley - "I help the helpless" (which was a total shout-out to TBQ). Loved his reactions to all of the new things. Loved him in general. Mmm. Angel. And I adored him getting all pissy at Eve for saying Connor's name.

Wes: He's really very pretty. That's really all that I could think during his scenes. Wes. Pretty. And he's smart! Um... yes. Brains and beauty. And I enjoyed his renewed friendship with Angel. So good to see that. And I liked his confusion over Knox.

Gunn: I'm liking the New Gunn. Of course, the Old Gunn was still only on probation last year after the whole Fred Thing, so I wasn't very attached to him. Also, shirtless=good and suits=good, so I'm happy with that. And dude, was that hair?

Fred: Very much enjoying her. Very cute. And I like the skirts. Not that I'm shallow. Well, I am shallow sometimes. Love the dynamic she has with Knox.

Lorne: Funny and wonderful. Love him. That's all I've got.

Comments

[imation23.livejournal.com]

I love the fact that they kept Angel in-character. It was the thing that was worrying me most about this season. Also the fact that it was still about Angel and not all about Spike. Although I've only seen 2 eps, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

[liliaeth]

Well I was personally very surprised to find that I really liked Harmony... I've never really been all that attached to any of the Angel chars, the way I was to the Buffy characters...
(even though I tend to prefer the visual effects on Angel)
Yet with these two eps, it seemed like they're finally trying to actually attach us to these characters and not just in a soapstyle way...

I loved the way that Gunn has a place to belong in now, though I loved the contrast with basketball holding Gunn from the start of the ep But it's nice to know that they instantly started putting doubts about who knows what else the Senior Partners put in his head.
I was really worried about the rumors on what the upgrades were gonna be like, and I was pleasantly surprised that they were more like an upload of years of learning, rather than actual intelligence.
(mostly since I always felt that Gunn was more than intelligent enough on his own)

I don't really care about Angel on hiw own, but I just loved the A/S vibe in the second ep.
Yes even with the bickering and fighting and ...
(So what I'm a slasher, sue me)

I liked Wes enough, but he's not in my top five list of chars, so I didn't mind that he wasn't so much the centre of attention as he's been before.
(though I really really hope he won't be ignored either, there's no reason they can't put attention to all chars)

I liked Fred, AA did a great job in all her scenes, giving her a strenght and femininity without weakening the char from what she was before.

Lorne... just loved his crack about Bloom and Depp... come on, who didn't think that was about his fantasy life at first? You know, before he mentioned that they were actually customers.

And then there's Eve... now, no.. I didn't think her annoying. She was sweet and ... well she was sweet. (which is weird, since she's from W&H and we almost all expect her to be evil)
I don't think though that she had chemistry with Angel.. now that's nothign against the actress, neither did CC and I personally loved her acting otherwise.

And of course Spike... God I missed him. I know this is still Angel's show, and I don't expect it to be all about Spike.
(I'd much rather have Spike getting his own show for that thank you very much, it'd definitely be my top favorite show if it ever happened)

Anyway, back to the topic... I agree that 'Blondie bear' from Harmony was sheer perfection... Not to mention Harmony's reaction to finding out about Spike's having dated Buffy...
(nice to see it from the vampire's side of things for a change)

Still a Buffy/Spike shipper, adoring that one of Spike's first questions was about Buffy's well being and whereabouts... Loved how he met the crew, though I really don't get Spike's promotion to 'worst vampire, second only to Angelus...'

Yes, Spike was evil, true, but he was nowhere near Angelus' level of evil... Hell Darla, Drusilla, the Master, Luke, ... were all worse than him...(guess Fury just thought it sounded cooler, as untrue as it may be)

Sorry, back to topic...
I loved both eps, the second one better than the first. I just loved Hainsley, the villain of Just Rewards, the actor playing him was excellent, he wentalmost instantly into my alltime top five of fave Buffy-Angel villains.

I loved how Angel put his trust in Spike, believing in Spike's plan and putting his (un)life in Spike's hands...
It truly felt that there was more than just the animosity, even though that was there as well.
(they are really playing it up for the slashers)

And oh yes, DB lost weight... compared to pics of past seasons, DB looks a lot better than he used to in the past two seasons. Not to mention that the darker tones, not to mention the petty jealousy he had to play really suited DB's acting style...

All in short, two great eps.

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

Eve: I still like her. I really like her, actually. She isn't Lilah, but I don't see her trying to be.

Well the problem is that to all reports she's supposed to be. So the fact that you can't even see her trying to be kind of shows what a bad job she's doing.

Which I'm not saying to harsh on your liking her. I mean if you're lucky enough not to be hating every second she's on the screen more power to you since you'll be getting more enjoyment out of it than I will. I'm just saying that to point out part of the reason why I don't like her.

I've got others that aren't Lilah focused at all, but I'll save those for when the ep airs.

Oh and -

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

Never thought of the "help the helpless" thing as a shout-out, but perhaps I'm way too spoiled by the two much more obvious ones in ep 2 ;)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Angel is still Angel and he still has that lovely depth. I'm pleased.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Hainsley was a good villian.

I pretty much agree with almost everything you said (well, the Wes thing not so much, but he's was featured quite a lot last season and can understand him taking more a supporting role in these episodes.). Glad to see someone else who likes Eve. I was feeling lonely.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm easy. If a character doesn't actively annoy me, I'll probably like them. I didn't get a Lilah vibe off her at all, though, so maybe they decided not to try to make her the same at the last minute. Or maybe the actress isn't trying to be. Or maybe I just have rose-colored glasses on. Many viable options.

Re: Oh and -

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Which I need to rewatch to pick out. Ooo. Or you could make it easy and tell me.

Re: Oh and -

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

Spike calls Wes Percy and in Epiphany I said that Percival was Wes's middle name. Also Angel deliberately chooses a silver car to drive, which is the color of car I had Wes teasing him about repeatedly in Strategy.

Re: Oh and -

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Hee. They sound like shout-outs to me, yeah.

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

Well possibly it's a 3-4 situation. I'm reminded of do it yourself projects where you, the person doing it, knows of every place you screwed up whereas the person you give the final item to has no idea of what you intended so to them it's perfect.

So in this case I'd be sort of like the do-it-yourselfer, unable to see the item as-is because I'm too focused on as-was, while you're the person getting the final item.

That being said, that only goes for the femme fatale thing. I've got other problems with her Mary Sueishness that don't have anything to do with that.

Re: Oh and -

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

I'm willing to let the car go as a possible co-incidence, but PERCY?

Shout out. Even more than the cat one from last year ;)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

That could be it. Except for actually watching the episodes, I didn't spoil myself at all, so I had no clue coming in about Eve. I'd heard that Lilah was probably not coming back, though. So that part didn't shock me.

And I don't see the Mary Sueiness... well, I can see her sorta being a voice for the writers - this is the way things are now, sort of thing. But she isn't loved by any of the characters and she's evil. Fred was way more of a Mary Sue.

Re: Oh and -

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Hee. Totally. That or you share a brain with Joss. In which case, you're doomed.

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

Yeah, her original introduction of herself included this whole little speech about Lilah not coming back and basically set Eve up as supposedly being Lilah but better in one of Joss's classic temper tantrums about problems with his actors. So on the meta level that's hard for me to ignore, even if the speech got edited out.

To be fair, I also give credit on the meta-level for stuff that had to get edited out but was also good. Like I don't slam them for never explaining why Sunnydale got evacuated because I know that they meant to hint that that was due to Jasmine's influence.

And she's not a screaming Mary Sue right now but all the hints are there. Again I'll dissect that more when the ep airs.

Re: Oh and -

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

BITE YOUR TONGUE!

I share a brain with Tim. Also Jeff. And, as we all know from last season's premiere ep, Steve DeKnight is obviously in love with me.

I make no claims for David Fury ;)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Re: Sunnydale, I just figured it was Jasmine, on top of the First, on top of people finally going "This is too much", on top of no longer having anything there to convince the population otherwise (the Mayor, the Initiative).

But yeah, I'll be interested in reading that when you write it. I can see hints, but they may never be more than that.

Re: Oh and -

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*grins*

So you just share the collective Angel brain, then.