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butterflyI've compared Wesley to Angel (as well he should be), but in many other ways, he's also like Spike. None of them have any self-perservation when it comes to the people they 'love' (Can you really love a person you don't know? Like Clark with Lana, I don't think that Wesley always sees the Fred that's there, and until he got the soul, Spike never even glimpsed the Buffy that was really there.). But Spike and Wesley share something that Angel doesn't.
Both Spike and Wesley want something that wanted them first (Angel gets wanted first a lot, so he has other insecurities instead). Spike thought he'd found in it Dru, only to find that her heart belonged to the demon who broke her. And he never had it with Buffy. No matter what else happens, Spike knows that he's always the runner-up. Hence the big macho act. Honestly? I found Spike very engaging and interesting in Destiny. He's so fucked up and he thinks that he's the least fucked up one. Very believable to me.
Spike wants to be needed. So does Wesley (has he ever been picked first?).
And you know, both of them can be pretty fucking scary when it comes to 'love'. And Angel's there, too, because as Spike said tonight, Angelus wasn't just a monster, he purposefully created monsters so that he wouldn't be alone. When I recently watched Dear Boy, I noticed something - Darla is honestly creeped out by Angelus' idea of turning Dru. Check out her face, she doesn't lose the "what the hell are you thinking?" expression until Angelus goes with the major kissing.
"No one could keep up with you... not even me."
Angelus was the worst of the worst. He cut a bloody swatch through Europe, but moreover, he taught others to be just as twisted. He wasn't just an artist of death, he was a teacher of that same art.
We've never seen another vampire quite like him. And that does imply that it was Liam who was special. Darla created something that she hadn't been planning on making. Angelus was special, different. We've seen it mentioned time and again - Angelus was a legend, pure and simple.
Spike tells Angel that he became a monster because of Angel's teachings. When I look at common vampires and then look at the ones that Angelus had a hand in shaping, I must agree. He made sure to impress on them that it wasn't just about brutal killing.
After all, Angelus is an artist.
And that reminds me of the exchange in Destiny that sums up those two and their dynamic -
Spike: "Ponce."
Angel: "Idiot."
We've seen the vampire within and it's just a beast. It is just a mindless beast. It's the memories and personality of the person left behind that does the driving. When you get vamped, you lose your conscience and you gain the bloodlust. And what you do with it is up to you.
What kind of vampire would Liam have made in the hands of another sire?
Well, he still would have killed his family and his entire town, I'm guessing. He still would have been dubbed an angel by his sister, and thus have adopted the name 'Angelus'. Honestly, it's impossible to say. But the potential was there. Darla was right about that - she didn't create the possibility of Angelus, she just nurtured him.
Just as Angelus didn't create the atrocities of Spike, but did nurture them.
Angelus killed his family because he wanted to and there was no reason, sans soul, not to. And Angel knows this. He knows what he's capable of, but at the same time, he doesn't want to admit it sometimes (he was big into denial in the first part of S2). Understandable, since being an Angelus is a scary thing.
Being a Wesley can be a scary thing, too. Which is probably part of the reason our boy needed some time away. As Xander said, "It wasn't you I was hating." He knows now what he's capable of (relearning it, since he doesn't remember Connor).
And it was always there. I've been rewatching S2 and I'm just so impressed at the character continuity. Wesley changes so much, but it's all built on things that came before. There's this incredibly solid foundation for everything he becomes.
It's things like that that get me trusting ME so much. I look at this incredible character arc and know that they're worth giving trust to, even if it looks like they don't know where they might be going.
Both Spike and Wesley want something that wanted them first (Angel gets wanted first a lot, so he has other insecurities instead). Spike thought he'd found in it Dru, only to find that her heart belonged to the demon who broke her. And he never had it with Buffy. No matter what else happens, Spike knows that he's always the runner-up. Hence the big macho act. Honestly? I found Spike very engaging and interesting in Destiny. He's so fucked up and he thinks that he's the least fucked up one. Very believable to me.
Spike wants to be needed. So does Wesley (has he ever been picked first?).
And you know, both of them can be pretty fucking scary when it comes to 'love'. And Angel's there, too, because as Spike said tonight, Angelus wasn't just a monster, he purposefully created monsters so that he wouldn't be alone. When I recently watched Dear Boy, I noticed something - Darla is honestly creeped out by Angelus' idea of turning Dru. Check out her face, she doesn't lose the "what the hell are you thinking?" expression until Angelus goes with the major kissing.
"No one could keep up with you... not even me."
Angelus was the worst of the worst. He cut a bloody swatch through Europe, but moreover, he taught others to be just as twisted. He wasn't just an artist of death, he was a teacher of that same art.
We've never seen another vampire quite like him. And that does imply that it was Liam who was special. Darla created something that she hadn't been planning on making. Angelus was special, different. We've seen it mentioned time and again - Angelus was a legend, pure and simple.
Spike tells Angel that he became a monster because of Angel's teachings. When I look at common vampires and then look at the ones that Angelus had a hand in shaping, I must agree. He made sure to impress on them that it wasn't just about brutal killing.
After all, Angelus is an artist.
And that reminds me of the exchange in Destiny that sums up those two and their dynamic -
Spike: "Ponce."
Angel: "Idiot."
We've seen the vampire within and it's just a beast. It is just a mindless beast. It's the memories and personality of the person left behind that does the driving. When you get vamped, you lose your conscience and you gain the bloodlust. And what you do with it is up to you.
What kind of vampire would Liam have made in the hands of another sire?
Well, he still would have killed his family and his entire town, I'm guessing. He still would have been dubbed an angel by his sister, and thus have adopted the name 'Angelus'. Honestly, it's impossible to say. But the potential was there. Darla was right about that - she didn't create the possibility of Angelus, she just nurtured him.
Just as Angelus didn't create the atrocities of Spike, but did nurture them.
Angelus killed his family because he wanted to and there was no reason, sans soul, not to. And Angel knows this. He knows what he's capable of, but at the same time, he doesn't want to admit it sometimes (he was big into denial in the first part of S2). Understandable, since being an Angelus is a scary thing.
Being a Wesley can be a scary thing, too. Which is probably part of the reason our boy needed some time away. As Xander said, "It wasn't you I was hating." He knows now what he's capable of (relearning it, since he doesn't remember Connor).
And it was always there. I've been rewatching S2 and I'm just so impressed at the character continuity. Wesley changes so much, but it's all built on things that came before. There's this incredibly solid foundation for everything he becomes.
It's things like that that get me trusting ME so much. I look at this incredible character arc and know that they're worth giving trust to, even if it looks like they don't know where they might be going.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-20 02:08 am (UTC)Angelus opened the door with Spike, but Drusilla is the beloved child, the one who's tolerated her fits of fancy-bred because Drusilla will always come back to Daddy when he calls. And this is largely the expected dynamic between Wesley and Angel. Wesley is Angel's beloved child, the one who, until Connor, could always be expected to choose Angel's side. Also, Wesley and Drusilla are also the most broken of all the people personally affected by Angel/us. And Angel knows that he's done the most wrong by both Wesley and Dru in his two lives, because they're the most vulnerable.
Also, I connect Wesley to Dru because while they're both Daddy's most faithful child, Angel will always choose them second to the call of the Powerful but Negative Force in his life (Darla, Cordelia with a side of Connor) and devastate them.
I feel like there's something subtly different going on with the Spike and Angel dynamic. Spike is disappointed that he can't win Angel's approval, but it doesn't fester in Spike's psyche like it does Wesley's. He dislikes and resents Angel, sure, but he isn't incapable of functioning because of Angel's disapproval. In fact, he manages to have fun, enjoy Dru and Buffy, be a menace, get a soul, and not rely on Angel. Wesley couldn't do that when Angel disapproved. The most he could do was aim for self-destruction and inadvertantly hook up with Lilah, who I suspect could have been more like Spike had she lived, and bears some resemblances. Because Angel didn't create Lilah's atrocities, but he certainly hardened her from the second-rate femme fatale to the scariest bitch queen in the Jossverse.
So there's that to think of, too. Just on a slightly different tangent.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-20 02:21 am (UTC)And he definitely broke Dru. And without Angel, I doubt that Wesley could have ever fallen as far as he did.
I love the Wes/Dru comparision (and the Spike/Lilah comparision, which rings much more true to me than a Spike/Faith comparision, which I've seen places). It has teeth. Definitely something to think about when I rewatch Wes' fall in S3.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-20 02:29 am (UTC)Also, you get the Spike/Dru and Lilah/Wes comparison, where it's destined, it's insane, it's love...and Angel screws it up for them, leaving the jilted lover quite upset.
The functional comparison is really....it works for me. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-20 02:36 am (UTC)That is absolutely the perfect phrase for them.
Wesley would, I think, have to completely break to get to the world-destroying point - but I do agree that he's capable of being broken that far and in that way. And Wesley is a vivid reminder that Angelus and Angel are the same being - that Angel creates the same type of devotion in both his souled and unsouled personas.
And I'm reminded of Connor, who also had it in him to be broken that way.