Quotes collection: Forgiveness

[butterfly]

Darla: "Master, forgive me! We had more offerings, but there was trouble. A girl!"
(The Harvest)

This doesn't offer any deep insights, though it does show us a pretty pitable Darla. A Darla still begging for forgiveness over choosing Angelus over the Master after how badly that turned out?

Natalie: "Oh, Xander! I've done something really stupid. I hope you can forgive me."
Xander: " Oh, forgiveness is my middle name! Well, actually it's LaVelle, and I'd appreciate it if you guard that secret with your life."
(Teacher's Pet)

And this gives us the opportunity to check out Xander - forgiveness is his middle name? Hmm. Is it? Actually, it pretty much is. Xander doesn't hold grudges for long. He gets his feelings out in the open, then he gets over it. To totally jump to S5, Xander pretty much lives "Love. Give. Forgive." in regards to his friends.

I'm sorry. I've been a terrible person.
I'm a coward, and I can't go on living like this.
Forgive me, Mom and Dad. At least now I'll
have some peace. Remember me.

Love, Dave.
(I Robot, You Jane)

The note that Moloch writes. Cut out the bits about being a terrible person and it reminds me a bit of what Buffy says in The Gift - I can't go on living if these are the choices. Tell Giles that I figured it out. The hardest thing to do in the world is live in it.

Giles: "I don't think she'll ever really forgive me. Maybe she shouldn't."
(The Dark Age)

Way significant. Should you forgive someone for not telling you the important things? When it's something that comes back to hurt you? Something that's applicable not just to Giles here, or to Jenny later in the season, but also to Buffy with the gang in Revelations, Wes with AI re: Connor, and Angel with AI re: Connor. Considering that it turns out that Jenny was hiding the exact type of thing that Giles was, I think that that's a hint in and of itself. We should forgive others for not telling us because eventually, we're going to need that forgiveness ourselves.

Spike: "Oh, forgive me! You know I can't stand to see you like this."
(What's My Line, Part 1)

Typical Spike. Lashing out when he's angry and then going all apologetic and sappy. The apology strikes me as both sincere and yet meaningless. Because he's going to do the same thing again. He wants forgiveness, but he isn't going to stop what he's done to need it. A pattern that doesn't change until he gets a soul.

Giles: "Oh, forgive me. Uh, Xander, Cordelia, this is Kendra. Uh, i-it's rather complicated, but she's also a Slayer.
(What's My Line, Part 2

I'm just amused by the fact that's it the same sort of asking for forgiveness that Spike does - it doesn't mean anything, really. Giles is just using it as a way to say, 'oops, forgot about that.'

Angelus: "She made me feel like a human being. That's not the kind of thing you just forgive."
(Innocence)

Lack of forgiveness from a demon is hardly a shocking character trait, though. I love his choice of words. She made him feel human, which is the thing that Angel yearns for ("That heartbeat... know that you're really alive... that's a gift."). Buffy made Angel feel human. That's what lost him his soul. And that's what both Buffy and Angelus have a hard time forgiving her for. Making him human enough to love with no reservations, no boundaries, and no hint of darkness.

Drusilla: "You must forgive Spike. He's just a bit testy tonight. Doesn't get out much anymore."
(Passion)

Which is our first instance of anyone asking forgiveness for someone else. I'm amused by the fact that she's apologizing to Angelus for the same thing that Spike asked forgiveness for from her.

Buffy: "He wants forgiveness."
Giles: "Yes. I imagine he does. But when James possesses people, they act out exactly what happened that night. So he's experiencing a form of purgatory instead. I mean, he's, he's doomed to, to kill his Ms. Newman over and over and over again, and... forgiveness is impossible."
Buffy: "Good. He doesn't deserve it."
Giles: "To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It's, it's not done because people deserve it. It's done because they need it.
Buffy: "No. James destroyed the one person he loved the most in a moment of blind passion. And that's not something you forgive. No matter why he did what he did. And no matter if he knows now that it was wrong and selfish and stupid, it is just something he's gonna have to live with."

Buffy: "I still... A part of me just doesn't understand why she would forgive him."
(I Only Have Eyes For You)

Our first real look at the subject of forgiveness. Forgiveness is what James longs for. But he can't have it because he doens't know how to break the pattern. He can't break the pattern, someone else has to break into it and forgive him. As an act of compassion and as an act of love. Hmm. Giles' position on forgiveness is admirable. Of course, as he gets tortured and as he kills and as his old life is destroyed, his ideals tarnish. Buffy, on the other hand, does grow from her position here. She's learns that the whys do matter. And that knowing that it was wrong and selfish and stupid does matter.

Xander: Oh, forgive me, your Swim Teamliness.
(Go Fish)

And this is just Xander being Xander.

Angelus: "The Lord is very forgiving. Tell me your sins."
(Becoming, Part 1)

And Angel completely uses Dru's faith in God to further tweak around with her sanity. It's interesting that Angel doesn't believe this at all - he doesn't think that the Powers or God are particularly forgiving. However, what he says later is also interesting in light of Season Four - "The Lord will use you and smite you down. He's like that."

Xander: "What? All is forgiven? I can't believe you people!"
(Becoming, Part 1)

And this is also Xander being Xander, but this one is a little deeper than a moment of sarcasm. Buffy blamed herself for the Angel thing. Xander, on the other hand, placed the blame squarely on Angel's shoulders. Angel's the bad guy now, which means no quarter. You don't give evil a chance. Xander's never really been one for giving evil a chance. If you've forsaken evil, then it's all well and good, but if you're killing or you call yourself evil, Xander's got you firmly placed on the 'enemy' list. It is a bit black and white, and yet he does always give people a chance if they show themselves to be trying. He just isn't that willing to give someone a chance based on someone else's word.

Willow: "It's okay. I understand you having to bail. I can forgive that. Mm, I have to make allowances for what you're going through a-and be a grownup about it."
Buffy: "You're really enjoying this whole moral superiority thing, aren't you?"
(Dead Man's Party)

Buffy totally called this one. Willow is using her forgiveness as a way to feel superior. Which, in my book, makes the forgiveness less than totally real. It isn't sincere. And yeah, Willow really enjoys her "I'm very seldom naughty" thing.

Willow: "Actually, I was more thinking Oz will be there, and I can beg for forgiveness."
(The Wish)

It's wrong of me to be happy about karma biting Willow in the ass. And yet, witness my joy. Who's morally superior now, huh, Red? Those who are required to give forgiveness are always then required to ask it. It seems to be a theme.

Willow: "Hello, still Jewish. Chanukah spirit, I believe that was? Anyway, forgiveness is pretty much a big theme with me this year, 'cause of the..."
(Amends)

This is really more of the same, though this actually reminds us that forgiveness is a theme. Actually, it's a big theme in this particular episode and throughout the season/series. And it's interesting that when Willow says that forgiveness is a big theme with her, what she means is that she wants to be forgiven, not that she wants to be forgiving.

Giles: "Oh, uh, forgive me. This, uh... this is, uh, Olivia. She's, uh, an old friend, she's staying here for a few days."
The Freshman)

I'm mildly amused by the fact that, once again, Giles asks for forgiveness about forgetting to introduce someone. Because I'm odd.

Buffy: "You're completely forgiven. I mean, you had reason to doubt. Except for the soul sucking thing I bet Kathy was pretty regular, as far as roomies go."
(Living Conditions)

Buffy easily forgives Willow for not trusting her. Definitely a contrast to her lack of sympathy in their lack of trust in S7. Both times, they had reason to doubt Buffy, but by S7, she has reason to doubt Willow as well.

Dream Parker: "It's everything. You're everything. And I'm going to do whatever it takes to get you to forgive me. Do you think one day you might..."

Dream Parker: "Can you ever forgive me?"

Parker: "Buffy. Buffy, I dunno how to say this. I'm sorry for how I treated you before. It was wrong of me and I'm sorry. You were great tonight, really. I might not deserve this but do you think that you could forgive me?"
(Beer Bad)

Not a huge shock that her daydream involves the guy asking for her forgiveness. She wants him to ask for her forgiveness, but in her dreams, we never get to see her response. In the end, it's as pure as driven snow - he asks her for forgiveness and she clubs him over the head. Thank God, by the way. I loved that. But yeah, if they're only asking for forgiveness out of pure gratitude, it's kinda empty.

Jonathan: "Buffy, if there's any part of you that's blaming Riley for what happened, it seems like there's a part of you that needs to forgive him."
(Superstar)

The first suggestion on Buffy that forgiveness is just as much about the person doing the forgiving as it is about the person being forgiven. Forgiving someone for the hurt they've caused us frees us from feeling that hurt when we're near them.

Giles: "Well, forgive me for, for asking this, but um, the children in your care, were any of them ever ill, or did anything ever happen to any of them?"
(Where the Wild Things Are)

Giles asks more people to forgive him than anyone else. It's just a way of speaking, but at the same time, it feels telling in a way.

Angel: “I want - - forgiveness.”
(In the Dark)

Well, that's pretty blatant. In the third episode, under torture that he admits nearly broke him, Angel reveals that what he's searching for is forgiveness. That's why he chases the Sanshu later on. That's what Darla represented, then Connor. Tangible evidence that he had a chance at being forgiven. And that's what he's given up on at the end of S4. That he has even that slim chance of being forgiven. Forgiveness means a lot to Angel.

Richard: "Ah, forgive me, I'm not quite myself. What with the wedding only a few days off now."
(The Bachelor Party)

That kinda reminds me of Spike's apology to Dru. Because though Richard does apologize for insulting Doyle, that doesn't stop him from doing so again later in the episode. He asks for forgiveness, but he doesn't plan on changing what required forgiveness in the first place. And sure, it looks like a small thing, but you don't pay attention and suddenly you're eating brains!

Angel: (in Korean) “Forgive me. I respect you have a business to run.”
(Parting Gifts)

I'm just amused by the fact that Angel is asking for forgiveness as he's offering a bribe. These things amuse me. Also, throw-away 'forgive me' that really means nothing.

Cordy: “I’m never going to forgive him for doing this to me.”
(Parting Gifts)

A more serious one. In the end, what Doyle did, whether or not it was intentional, was doom Cordy to a shortened lifespan filled with pain. Is that forgiveable? Does it matter whether or not he meant to? Does it matter that this pain comes with the ability to help people? And that leads me towards a whole essay on the visions and the fact that they actually aren't the best power for good ever. Which I'm not sure I'll ever write.

Glory: "Oh! Forgive me... monky. Sometimes I just... I get so anxious- like there's something deep inside of me and it's swelling up and it's making me crazy!- that I forget there's all that duct tape on your face!"
(No Place Like Home)

Another of those throw-away 'forgive me's. So, why am I posting the ones that I don't think matter? Because the non-mattering is just as important as the mattering. Seeing how often a word is misused gives us clues as to its importance to the people involved.

Mr. Maclay: "Forgive me for running out. We're double-parked."
(Family)

You know, it's kinda like using politeness to cover for the fact that you don't care. It's fake politeness, really. Because true politeness comes from respecting the person that you're being polite to. And I'm really going on about this. Hmm.

Dreg: "Forgive me, shiny special one. I beg of you to rip out my inadequate tongue."
(Shadow)

Aw, it's kinda nice to see a 'forgive me' that's heartfelt, even if it is from a sycophantic minion.

Dreg: "Sir, forgive me. I just want to understand. Why summon the Queller?"
(Listening to Fear)

It's interesting that only the villians have been asking for forgiveness in Season Five.

Professor: "Now, Rasputin was associated with a certain obscure religious sect. They held the tenet that in order to be forgiven, one first had to sin. Rasputin embraced this doctrine and proceeded to sin impressively and repeatedly. The notion that he was in fact evil gained strength years later when the conspirators who set out to kill him found it nearly impossible to do so.
(Checkpoint)

Interesting point. Also, true. You don't need forgiveness unless you've done something wrong. But setting out to do something wrong in order to gain forgiveness is... well, unnecessary as it's pretty hard to live any length of time among people and not need forgiveness. But it's interesting in the context of Angel/us.

Jinx: "It's time to set old animosities aside. Your fate is directly linked to her magnificently-scented Glorificus. She's been extremely forgiving of your considerable foibles up until now, but if you persist in your defiance, she'll be forced to..."
(Blood Ties)

Jinx claims that Glory has been forgiving, but it's only because she's had no choice in the matter. Which renders her 'forgiveness' pretty worthless, really.

First Slayer: "Love is pain, and the Slayer forges strength from pain. Love... give... forgive. Risk the pain. It is your nature. Love will bring you to your gift."
(Intervention)

These are some of the most important words of advice that Buffy ever gets. Love. Give. Forgive. They're all connected, as well they should be. This is the heart of Buffy. You know, the FS here reminds me of the Guardian from End of Days. What the Slayer was meant to be before she was chained up? And after the First Slayer says this, not a single person on Buffy ever uses the word 'forgive' in a way that's less than meaningful, which I find interesting.

Judy: "I mean, there is such a thing as forgiveness, right?"

Judy: "I'm so sorry I killed you. Can you forgive me?"
Angel: "Of course."
(Are You Now or Have You Ever Been...?)

Judy gets to be forgiven. That's what she was waiting for. She couldn't die, trapped in terror. She needed to be released. And that's the thing that Angel is never allowed to say - "I'm so sorry I killed you. Can you forgive me?" All those people he murdered, he can never ask them for their forgiveness. There is such a thing as forgiveness, though, and at this point, Angel is letting himself believe that perhaps even he can be forgiven. And like James, Judy couldn't let herself rest until she'd been forgiven by the one she'd killed.

Priest/The Master: "Are you prepared now to renounce Satan and beg God his forgiveness?"
(Darla)

Beg. Asking for forgiveness is a humbling thing. It means admitting that you made some wrong choices. It means saying that you want to make the right ones. God never did anything for her, so Darla wouldn't ask for his forgiveness. The Master did do something for her - freed her from the mortal cage she hated - and so she was willing to humble herself before him.

Host: "Uh, resentment is such an ugly emotion. I hope you've overcome yours, Angel, because right now he's got your case in, forgive me, in the palm of his hand. Toodles."
(Dead End)

Another throw-away 'forgive me'. I'm not shocked. Interesting that his insincere apology happens the episode before we learn more about him.

Cordy: "No. Oh, no. - God, please forgive me. This is all my fault. Because I pardoned you - and they - they wanted to teach me a lesson. - You didn't do anything wrong."
(There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb)

A very real 'forgive me'. Cordy recognizes that she did wrong and asks for forgiveness. And she gets it, in the form of Lorne not being all the way dead yet.

Wesley: "Forgive me, Gunn. I should never have opened my mouth."
(There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb)

Another real 'forgive me'. And again, Wes is rewarded for his sincerity by being placed in charge of the rebels.

Buffy: "Please don't forgive me, please... Please don't... Please don't forgive me... "
(Dead Things)

The first time we see the word in Season Six of BtVS. We see flashes of Buffy from IOHEFY here. She has a very hard time forgiving herself. When Buffy screws up, then it means that she's wrong. She blames herself when things go wrong.

Giles: "Can you forgive me?"
(Grave)

This is very upfront and adult of Giles. And Buffy, of course, doesn't even see why Giles needs to ask forgiveness, because it's all their own fault. Buffy needed to reach a place where she could forgive herself. It's very interesting that in Season Six there are only two places where 'forgive' is used and there are no throw-aways.

Roger: "Yeah. You have to forgive us hicks. Down in Texas we don't get a lot of guys who wear eyeliner - not for long anyway."
(Fredless)

A throw-away 'forgive us' from Fred's parents. Hmm.

Wes: "You have to forgive the wrapping. Some of us seem to have fostered a strange addiction to Scotch tape."
(Birthday)

Hmm. Forgive the wrapping. Forgive the appearance. It looks like Wes was planning to betray Angel, but he thought he was saving him from himself. Hmm.

Brian: "I'd forgive her if she'd take me back."
(Provider)

Forgiveness with conditions isn't really forgiveness.

Then there's the episode that is actually called Forgiving.

Girl: "You have a taste for red too. And revenge. I know, it's so much more fun than forgiveness."

Gunn: "And he'll forgive Wesley for taking his son and giving him to his mortal enemy."
Fred: "Well... maybe begin to forgive -- what else could Wes do?"

Lorne: "Maybe the way to start forgiving yourself is by starting to forgive him."

Angel: "I'll never forgive you, never..."
(Forgiving)

Hmm. You know, judging by recent events, I don't think that Angel has forgiven Wes. He sure as hell hasn't forgiven himself.

Fred: "Look, he doesn't have to forgive Wesley."
(The Price)

No, he certainly doesn't. Forgiveness is never an obligation. It's a gift, not a requirement. But as long as he doesn't, then Angel will carry that with him.

Cordelia: "Well, gee, forgive me for saving my own life."
(The Price)

A very insincere 'forgive me'. Which never really goes well for the characters.

Holtz: "Dearest Steven, this is a most difficult letter for me to write. You mean more to me than anything in this world or any other. But your best interests must come first, which is why by the time you receive this, I will be gone. I hope one day you will be able to forgive an old man's weakness, which compels him to say these things in a letter. But to attempt a good-bye in your presence would be impossible for me. I fear I would never let you go. And I must let you go. I know that if I didn't you would only end up hating me. And that I could not bear."
(Benediction)

One of the writers once said that Holtz never lies. He writes the letter so that it will read one way from Angel's point of view and a totally different way for Connor, but he doesn't lie. But it's still a manipulation. And yet, I do think he means all that he says in the letter. And yet. There's always an 'and yet' with Holtz.

Connor: "I will do as you taught me. I will cling to the good - and I will lay waste to the evil. Sleep now, father - and forgive me."
(Tomorrow)

My heart so breaks for Connor. He was so completely fucked up. Just so fucked up. Oh, and mark that under 'very sincere' for the forgive me.

Spike: "Neither do I. I can't say sorry. Can't use forgive me. All I can say is: Buffy, I've changed."

Spike: "She shall look on him with forgiveness, and everybody will forgive and love. He will be loved."
(Beneath You)

When he's 'in costume', trying to hide the true extent of his damage, Spike says that he can't ask for forgiveness. When they've reached the church and his walls have crumbled, he reveals that that is just what he seeks. Forgiveness and love, but forgiveness first.

Xander: "Like she didn't think we were ready to forgive her? I get that."

Willow: "It's nice to be forgiven. Too bad I need so much of it."
(Same Time, Same Place)

It's nice to be forgiven. The word was nearly forgotten last year, the only mentions being Buffy begging Tara not to forgive her and then Giles breaking the walls by asking for Buffy's forgiveness. This year so far, we have two people clearly striving for forgiveness and for being worthy of being forgiven.

Buffy: "You'll have to forgive Andrew. Or not. Your call."
(Get It Done)

And that's it, right there. It's always the person's call to forgive. It's always a choice.

Anya: "Forgiveness makes us human. blah-dee-blah-blah-blah."
(Lies My Parents Told Me)

Interesting choice of words, as the saying is "To err is human, to forgive divine."

Faith: "I'm really not looking for forgiveness."

Spike: "It doesn't matter. You're back in the bosom. All's forgiven."
(End of Days)

Faith claims not to be looking for forgiveness, but what she means is that she doesn't deserve it. She blew it. And Buffy reminds her that no one's perfect (shades of Amends). And Spike mentions that Buffy's back in the group and "all's forgiven". True. All she had to do was show that she still respected them and their opinions. That's the only reason that they stopped following her.

Cordy: "I know I don't deserve forgiveness."

Angel: "We've been pushed to the edge so many times, done things we're sure can never be forgiven, but we're always there for each other when it counts."
(Awakening)

The first time that the word is mentioned in Season Four and it's in a dream. That doesn't bode well. And wow, Angel really is a bit of a sap.

Wesley: "You'll have to forgive the accommodations. The last time you were free, you terrorized Sunnydale."
(Soulless)

Hmm. And Wes throws away another 'forgive'. Could be a Brit thing.

Fred: "I'm so sorry."
Jasmine: "It's OK. I forgive you."
Fred: "No, I'm talking to Angel. I hope he can forgive me."
(Magic Bullet)

Well, apologising should give her a step up on that. And that's the last 'forgive' of Season Four. And the last 'forgive' in Angel, up to the current episode. Only seventy-two instances in all of the Buffy and Angel run.

And when I put this on my site, I'll obviously make it easy to skip to certain sections.

And, as always, I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts.