Website update:

[butterfly]

Saturday, January 3rd, 2004: Switched up things a little - added a section for Lord of the Rings Real Person Slash (Lotrips). Added The Problem and This is how... to the new section. Added Something More to Perfect Possible - Dawn, Andrew, and Far Future sections. Added Inside the Worst of Them (Essay) to Harry Potter. Added Hope is Kindled, Not for Me, Into the West, and Don't Leave Me to Return of the King Essays.

Comments

The Traditional Squicks of Fanfic

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

Random thing I've noticed: Buffy people tend to be fine with the idea of RPS, but utterly against incest. In Harry Potter, it seems to be quite the other way around. Well, HP has far more pervs, and has lots of people who love both, but generally the incest squick falls far earlier than the RPS one.

Re: The Traditional Squicks of Fanfic

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

That is interesting. Hmm. Something to think about. I wonder if that has to do with the reasons that people come into certain fandoms, or with demographs of who likes what. Hmm.

Re: The Traditional Squicks of Fanfic

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

I remember when I was first getting into Buffy fandom, lurking on TBQ's journal, and seeing her make a post about how she'd read a bit of HP, and it was okay, but the twincest? No. Just no. And I had to readjust for a second, because it had been so long since I'd come across anyone who refused to read incest. And then later I really got into handbasket_rpg and actually got mildly offended by one of the characters - she was portrayed as an out-and-out ickly plebe and one of her posts went along the lines of "I don't know why people don't like my Buffy/Dawn - they're not sisters really! Why don't people understand!" only with numerous typos. And I felt like saying to the people who ran the thing, "Hey, what's wrong with writing incest, even about people who *are* proper sisters? Why the hell not?"

Re: The Traditional Squicks of Fanfic

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Heh. I get how you feel. I'm often all, "But you think __ is acceptable? How is that less 'generally squicky' than ___?" I mean, people who aren't in fandom often think both are abhorrent.

Re: The Traditional Squicks of Fanfic

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

But it's all just in stories! RPS for me is sort of the final frontier of squick (no problems with anyone else reading/writing it, just don't want to myself) partly because it's the only form of fanfiction that could actually have an effect on somebody, i.e. the subjects.)
Bringing in a third traditional squick, the Buffy fandom is one that's very comfortable with rape and rapefic, relatively speaking - not to mention the huge popularity murderers have - so the strong anti-incest vibe surprises me. The vast majority of the incest I've come across goes along the lines of "Fucked up siblings find fucked-up comfort in each other". I just find it hard to imagine people being grossed out by that and still loving Lilah or shipping Spuffy or enjoying a good old bloody tale of the Fanged Four.

Re: The Traditional Squicks of Fanfic

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't really get it. I figure that fiction=fair game. Don't understand how someone can say that all of this is in-limits but this isn't. Because it's all fiction.

[ex-grievous-115.livejournal.com]

These are fascinating essays - and very well thought out. You are not alone in thinking of Frodo as martyr rather than hero, which I tend to think is one of the reasons a lot of people think, "poor Frodo, it's not fair," about him. Because he is giving everything up voluntarily for the sake of something he loves.

And much as a lot of people don't like it, Sam's "she had ribbons in her hair," is a lovely line - it brings home what Sam has given up as well - the simple life that should have been his. The scene at the top of Mount Doom is beautiful and lyrical and romantic in all the right ways.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

You are not alone in thinking of Frodo as martyr rather than hero, which I tend to think is one of the reasons a lot of people think, "poor Frodo, it's not fair," about him. Because he is giving everything up voluntarily for the sake of something he loves.

I can't think "poor Frodo" because, though he went through far more than any one person should have to - one person did have to and it was him and he accepted that task. It feels wrong to feel sorry for him, to pity him for something that he chose. I think that he deserves the peace and healing of Valinor, but he did chose. It wasn't fair, but it was his. I'm probably not explaining it quite right - Frodo saved the Shire, saved Middle-Earth, and he did it knowing that he, the Frodo that was, wouldn't come back - whether by death or inner destruction. It's to be admired, not pitied.

Sam's "she had ribbons in her hair," is a lovely line - it brings home what Sam has given up as well - the simple life that should have been his. The scene at the top of Mount Doom is beautiful and lyrical and romantic in all the right ways.

Exactly, yes. And it sets up Frodo's line at the end. If he hadn't brought up Rosie to Frodo's, Frodo's line about Sam being torn in two would sound less real. We had to see that Sam did desire that life of good green earth and little hobbit bairns and Rosie. Because we know how much he values the clear light and soft water that is Frodo - we needed to see his other side again.