Perspective in Angel 5x20 -- The Girl in Question

[butterfly]

It would, I think, be a little fascinating to chart who liked last night's Angel and who didn't. It reminds me of the difference between people whose favorite dS seasons are the Vecchio ones and those who favor three and four.

Because the Kowalski seasons definitely embrace farce and genre and change more than the first two do. I'm reminded of reading about how Fraser was so very out of character during some later episodes (Seeing is Believing, Odds, for example).

On Angel, there's been a lot of use of plays in perspective this year. We don't see Buffy because Angel and Spike are not in a mental place where they can see Buffy. Rome is... well, you saw Spike's black and white flashback. They weren't trying to show us Italy. It was Italy through the eyes of two vampires who weren't paying attention. All they notice are the things that are blatantly shoved under their noses because they're so busy chasing Buffy that they can't see anything else.

They don't just do it to Rome -- they do it to everything. The Immortal is powerful, seductive, and unseen. Buffy is elusive and tempting. Andrew is a total leech and then suddenly suave and wise. The Angel/Spike storyline is the culmination of the way they've been acting like idiots around each other all season. Because the Immortal is Angel to Spike and Spike to Angel. They never see him because they're standing right next to him the entire time.

And then they take the same basic theme -- lost love -- and show the complete tragic nature of it (the tempo of the show reminded me of Moulin Rouge). Wesley's scenes with Illyria qua Fred were heartbreaking. We see him making a choice similar to Angel's for the sake of a loved one -- a kind lie instead of the painful reality. We see him rejecting that for himself, not because he doesn't want it, but because it wouldn't be enough.

I've mentioned before the scariness of Wesley's love, especially when it comes to Fred -- he wants everything, though he's usually willing to settle for what he can get (in other words, he'll so break if Illyria keeps up her program).

Comments

[ros-fod.livejournal.com]

I like your ideas in theory, and I agree that this is what the writers were probably trying to go for. An episode about skewed prespectives, about, as Lindsey said (although, I suppose, someone else said it first on BtVS), an apocalypse that's already happening, it's just all around you/underneath your nose/standing right by you and you can't see it unless you look in the right place? Those are all good things.

I still hated the execution.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I've mentioned before the scariness of Wesley's love, especially when it comes to Fred -- he wants everything, though he's usually willing to settle for what he can get (in other words, he'll so break if Illyria keeps up her program).

Wes is still terrifying me.

Fascinating post - and a wonderful observation on the role of perception and well, now I have something to think about for the rest of the afternoon. Thank you.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

It's one of those indefinable taste issues. For me, the execution enhanced the message, but I can see why it doesn't work that way for other people.

[loretak.livejournal.com]

Because the Immortal is Angel to Spike and Spike to Angel. They never see him because they're standing right next to him the entire time.

Ooh, that's really insightful. It definitely wouldn't have occurred to me - I don't tend to think that deeply into things but sometimes I wish I could! Thanks.

[loretak.livejournal.com]

In an unrelated subject...I really like your icon. Heehee. :-D

[coiledsoul.livejournal.com]

I was having the hardest time trying to figure out exactly why I liked this episode even though it seemed disjointed and out of character at times but now I don't have to because you just did it for me.

I think it just surprised me and maybe confused others that they were bringing a high art one-shot to the game with only 3 eps left. This probably would have fit into the season better (and subsequently been liked more) at a different time than now.

I'm posting a link to this in my journal and friending you. I hope you don't mind.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Thank you. It is by jidabug and is sharable.

Just popping in to say...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...Sisabet is right...this is an interesting angle on the last episode. I am not sure I buy into TGIQ as an introspective piece...but you have a refreshing take on it all.

Rae

[fox1013.livejournal.com]

We see him making a choice similar to Angel's for the sake of a loved one -- a kind lie instead of the painful reality. We see him rejecting that for himself, not because he doesn't want it, but because it wouldn't be enough.

I'd disagree. I don't think he wants the lie at all, but he rejects the truth to make it easier for people.

Or, let me back up. I guess I don't believe the Wesley up to Home would want the lie. Up until Home, he consistently chose the more complex choice that made things harder but was what he considered the Right Thing.

Now, after losing two years of personal growth and then learning that Angel thought it was best to protect him, and after discovering exactly what Angel protected him from, he seems to think that the best way to live life is to avoid pain by simply doing what would be good for his immediate circle of friends, rather than what would be Right. Even though, in s4, Wes never once moved to avoid the pain for himself, instead choosing to survive, he now seems to want what others want rather than what he himself would put first: the good of Fred's parents, the good of Angel, the good of Illyria. The good of Wesley when it's what he thinks others want. Never working for the good of the world. Angel wouldn't want him to do this, so he doesn't want it. He's no longer functioning on what he, personally, wants, or what he's idealized, but rather on what would appease those closest to him.

So, he's rejecting the kind lie for himself, in favor of the painful reality, not because he doesn't want it- that I'd agree with. But I think it would be exactly enough for him. As we found at the end of 18, he would want the kind lie; would prefer it. It was enough for him. The only reason he smashed the orb thingy was that he thought it might bring back Fred. But it would have been enough for him. It just wouldn't have been enough for Fred, or Connor, or Angel.

...Which is why I miss the Wes of seasons past. This Wes has lost the mission something awful, in favor of creepy creepy obsession.

But, well, that's another reply, for when I'm not just trying to escape from the grasp of scary psych studying. *nods*

[gwynnega]

Because the Immortal is Angel to Spike and Spike to Angel. They never see him because they're standing right next to him the entire time.

Wow. I'd had vague thoughts to that effect, but you've really nailed it!

I don't think it is just lost love

[bhadrasvapna.livejournal.com]

But lost family. If Angel and Buffy did get together, she would be his family. If Fred and Wesley did get together, they would be family. When Wesley was talking to the Burkles, he was talking to people that should have been his in-laws one day. They would be mom and dad. Mrs. Burkle was even trying to get Wesley into her family.

Same thing with the vampires. Darla is like Angelus' wife and Dru is Spike's. They are a family. That is why Angelus goes for a blood vengeance. Blood, life, family. The Immortal has tasted Darla. Now Angelus is out for blood.

[ros-fod.livejournal.com]

Heeee. Believe me, if it wasn't for you, I'd still be frothing at the mouth. At least now, I can be like, okay, okay, interesting. In theory. :p

[soundingsea.livejournal.com]

Fascinating. So, just like all the characters were meaner to Harmony in "Harm's Way", the world is skewed to our boys' perspective in TGIQ. Good observation.

[caille.livejournal.com]

Excellent comparison, soundingsea.

In a way they both remind me of "Fool for Love", in that Spike's narrative was self-serving and only intermittently true, which we realize from the images that accompany his narrative. His unreliability as an informant calls even the revealing images into question. Spike didn't talk about the William we observed. The ep was really like looking into his head: the unpleasant memories are there, but they skitter off to the side as we try to focus on what we've decided is an accurate account. So is the wimpy William that Spike is trying to ignore an accurate characterization? Probably not, but maybe. Certainly it's part of the story, even though it's by no means the whole story.

Also - butterfly? Thanks for this insightful post. I love "The Girl In Question", and your interpretation helps me understand why.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Aw... that's really sweet. I could advertise myself as a froth-eliminating service.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Wes is so far off the deep end that he's been breathing water for the last episode or two.

And you're welcome. I really adored the way TGIQ made me actually sit down and think.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

You're welcome.

This type of thing is one of the best parts of watching good tv, for me. I love coming up with connections and theories.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I was having the hardest time trying to figure out exactly why I liked this episode even though it seemed disjointed and out of character at times but now I don't have to because you just did it for me.

Wow, thanks. That's great to read.

I think it just surprised me and maybe confused others that they were bringing a high art one-shot to the game with only 3 eps left. This probably would have fit into the season better (and subsequently been liked more) at a different time than now.

I loved it because ME's whole thing is the unexpected. The natural thing for a show to do at a time like this is to build up the pressure, instead, they let some off. It's an uncharacteristic move for tv.

I'm posting a link to this in my journal and friending you. I hope you don't mind.

Not at all. I'm flattered.

Re: Just popping in to say...

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

And yeah, it's mostly just a lot of fun. It's designed for laughs. But under the laughs, ME usually has something interesting to say (like they did in Smile Time).

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I'd disagree. I don't think he wants the lie at all, but he rejects the truth to make it easier for people.

I kinda think that he's doing both. Choosing the lie is both kindness and it's easier. Like Buffy both saved the world and got to escape it in The Gift, I think that both interpretations do apply.

What broke Wes was that he did channel the meaning of good into Fred (much as Buffy means good to Spike and to Angel). When he lost Fred, he lost the mission, because he has, over the years, idealized Fred to equal the mission. And now he doesn't trust Angel. He doesn't trust Angel because of what he learned in Origin and neither can he trust himself, also because of what he learned there. He has nothing that he believes in anymore.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

And I adore that icon.

Re: I don't think it is just lost love

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Ah, incestuous demon love. It's a lot of fun.

I did love seeing Darla again.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Totally. Because yeah, they never hated Harmony, they just didn't really care.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Yes -- in Buffy and Angel, it's very important to be aware of the unreliable narrator. Anything told to us by a character should be questioned, starting from the very first, when Giles said that nothing of the person is left in the vampire, which we have seen to be quite false. Every person on this show is an unreliable narrator when the perspective jumps to them. Honestly, I don't believe a bloody word any of them say -- I watch what they do and how other people react.

And you're very welcome. I'm so in love with Angel this year.

[onetwomany.livejournal.com]

Fantastic post, and great insight, especially about the epsidoe being through the distorted eyes fo two vampies whose attention was focused on the one thing neither could have. So much good stuff in here.

The Angel/Spike storyline is the culmination of the way they've been acting like idiots around each other all season. Because the Immortal is Angel to Spike and Spike to Angel. They never see him because they're standing right next to him the entire time.

Perfectly said.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad someone actually took the time to look deeper into what on the surface appeared (at least in Italy) to be pure farce. I was too busy gasping over the Eddie Izzard references to think any clear thoughts at all. Especially with Angel in that jacket.

[chickwriter.livejournal.com]

Wow. I am seeing this episode through new eyes tonight. Was originally disappointed in what I saw as the utter wastefulness of vampire buddy road trip, but I really GET what you're saying. Thanks for the fabulous post!

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Aw... you're very welcome. I'm incredibly thrilled that it helped.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

I'm so glad that this has been useful to someone not me. I know that I can talk meta for all eternity, but it's nice to be encouraged.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Angel in that jacket! He looked so uncomfortable (but good, I think he looked good).

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

He looked great!! I *loved* the jacket.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Wes is terrifying. Period.

butterfly, you're right: Wes, as everybody who deigns to care has noticed, is dangerously close to the edge. If Illyria keeps pushing, he will fall.

::shivers happily::