SG-1 -- Wherein I Mostly Avoid Talking About Daniel

[butterfly]

It seems like with every new show that I fall for, the obsession is deeper and deeper. This is why I must avoid any new media. Seriously. I mean, I spent three hundred dollars on Stargate within a few weeks of seeing my first episode.

Perhaps it's simply a case of seeking a more interesting life in media than I have in... um, life. Hee.

Rewatched some early season four episodes. Redid my freak-out at the Sam/Jack'ness. I just... she calls him "sir". She calls him "sir". I just... no. I could never ship a relationship where one person calls the other one "sir".

Unless it's a sex game.

But yeah, with Sam and Jack, I get all, "Regulations!" and "Chain of fucking Command!" and that sort of thing. It's the "sir"ing. I can't get over it. Also, I always really like Sam's love interests. I like poor, dead Narim. I like poor, dead Martouf. I liked fake!Pete for the few minutes that I saw him. I like possibly dead Orlin. I like poor, dead Joe.

Though, honestly, there's a lot of intrusiveness on the part of most of those guys. Oh, hey, I didn't like (hah! dead!) Jonas (the one from First Commandment) but he may have been more attractive when they were actually dating.

Nah.

I actually haven't found myself disliking many characters. I can't really think of anyone off the top of my head. Even the ones that are less sympathetic still make sense from their perspective, I think (even Jonas was interesting in a "Look at how egotistical a non-Goa'uld'd human can be" way -- Hee. "Non-Goa'uld'd". And I say I love the English language.). And they've had some great guest stars over the years, some really great reoccuring characters. And the core four still convey this great friendship vibe together. You believe that they're this tight, cohesive unit.

The one that was probably the least 'naturally' integrated was Sam, because she was chosen to be on his team. Daniel put himself on the team (winning over Jack and Hammond) and led the way to Teal'c being on the team, which Jack really fought for. Sam was there because she'd done behind the scenes work. The audience got to see why Jack and Daniel and Teal'c became SG-1, where Sam was more slotted in. Still, I wonder if there's any way that they could have brought her in more naturally. Of course, it doesn't help that she actually makes me cringe in her introductory scene ('reproductive organs', people).

Sam's evolution over the years would probably be interesting to explore. She feels more like a scientist who is in the Air Force in the beginning seasons, whereas later on, she sounds like a soldier who knows science. The focus shifts.

Teal'c is also interesting to think about. I haven't seen Orpheus, which I hear deals with the Jaffa, but his arc's cool, though relatively straight-forward. He starts out with a goal in the first episode (free the Jaffa) and is slowly succeeding. And he's had, like, three love interests in the entire show run, yes? His wife, the dead priestess chick, and the one he mentioned in New Order?

I keep waiting to see Horribly!Stupid Jack. What's a good episode for that? Because I keep expecting to see him get dumb and keep not noticing it (I haven't seen much of season six or any of seven, but I've seen all of four and five -- is Stupid!Jack in season six and seven? Because he's not in season eight thus far.). Many times, he obviously doesn't care about the science or history as long as Sam or Daniel can figure the thing out, but that's not the same as not having the ability to know about it (which starts as early back as Children of the Gods, when Daniel's trying to chatter about the DHD -- though in that scene, it also appears that Jack has ulterior motives and is attempting to get Daniel to feel as though Jack were his commanding officer -- good luck on that one, Jack. Even after you make general, he's going to treat you like a) a friend, b) a buzzing bee and occasionally c) someone he sorta has to pay attention to once in a while). Of course, I probably think of his choices more positively because I genuinely like and enjoy the character.

Or do I like and enjoy the character because I like his choices? Blasted chickens with their eggs.

And while I'm talking about characters, I might as well mention Daniel. Being as he's, you know, a character. Hee. But I love the transition of his arc. The Pilot sets up his journey to find Sha're -- his journey complicates in Secrets with the knowledge of the Harcesis -- which pays off in Forever in a Day when Sha're dies and gives him the task of finding the child -- he finds the kid in Maternal Instinct and meets Oma, consequently losing the focus that has defined him thus far in the series and leaving him adrift -- Shifu goes to him in Absolute Power, tells him that the path that he's fallen into isn't for him, Daniel searchs for a new one -- in Meridian, Oma goes to him and offers him that new path -- in Full Circle, he chooses to cross the line when Jack asks him to, thus actively choosing his own path, finally. Leaving him to start anew (in every sense) in Fallen, entirely on the path of his choice, as Shifu admonished him to find in Absolute Power.

Actually, it kinda reminds me of Buffy, what with the dying and rebirth and death turning out to be only a new beginning for the two characters.

Comments

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

But yeah, with Sam and Jack, I get all, "Regulations!" and "Chain of fucking Command!" and that sort of thing. It's the "sir"ing. I can't get over it.

Their love is so wrong it is right!


The one that was probably the least 'naturally' integrated was Sam, because she was chosen to be on his team. Daniel put himself on the team (winning over Jack and Hammond) and led the way to Teal'c being on the team, which Jack really fought for. Sam was there because she'd done behind the scenes work. The audience got to see why Jack and Daniel and Teal'c became SG-1, where Sam was more slotted in. Still, I wonder if there's any way that they could have brought her in more naturally. Of course, it doesn't help that she actually makes me cringe in her introductory scene

She never gels as much as the others do, "IMHO". I think it's she's so... comparatively serious and not with the funny.


I keep waiting to see Horribly!Stupid Jack. What's a good episode for that? Because I keep expecting to see him get dumb and keep not noticing it (I haven't seen much of season six or any of seven, but I've seen all of four and five -- is Stupid!Jack in season six and seven? Because he's not in season eight thus far.)

It's mostly... moments. Like needing Sam to talk him through the bomb in Failsafe (GAH!) and ouch the tape recorder thing in Window of Oppertunity. S4 is, I think, the most obvious for that.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

She never gels as much as the others do, "IMHO". I think it's she's so... comparatively serious and not with the funny.

Oddly, I agree, yet would also say that as a character, she's "lighter" than the others, not as angsty. She's not as... dynamic, possibly.

It's mostly... moments. Like needing Sam to talk him through the bomb in Failsafe (GAH!) and ouch the tape recorder thing in Window of Oppertunity. S4 is, I think, the most obvious for that.

Haven't seen Failsafe (I... think. What season is that?). I chalked the tape recorder thing up to desperate hope. Because he really didn't want to have to remember it all himself.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Oddly, I agree, yet would also say that as a character, she's "lighter" than the others, not as angsty. She's not as... dynamic, possibly.

She's got less backstory in a way. Yeah, there's her mum, and Jacob, but Daniel and Teal'c have the background with goa'uld/Abydos, and Jack's got Special Ops stuff and losiing Charlie. Those things are always there in the background and they get really incorporated into how they act and react to things. And, yeah, for me the funny is a big part of her not quite clicking. She's sort of... not quite *in* conversations a lot of the time.



Haven't seen Failsafe (I... think. What season is that?). I chalked the tape recorder thing up to desperate hope. Because he really didn't want to have to remember it all himself.

Failsafe is.... *thinks* S5? Maybe S4. pre-Ascending for sure.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

She's got less backstory in a way. Yeah, there's her mum, and Jacob, but Daniel and Teal'c have the background with goa'uld/Abydos, and Jack's got Special Ops stuff and losiing Charlie. Those things are always there in the background and they get really incorporated into how they act and react to things. And, yeah, for me the funny is a big part of her not quite clicking. She's sort of... not quite *in* conversations a lot of the time.

Yeah, it's not so much that she has less backstory -- she just has less pertinent backstory. You never forget Daniel's history with the Goa'uld, because he's snarking up the screen every time that he's near one. His history is always close to the surface. And Teal'c literally wears his past on his face in the form of his slave-tattoo-gold-thing. It's always there as a reminder of who he used to be.

Plus, yeah, she's slightly distanced. There's the "sir" thing. There's the "only woman in a group of men" thing. There's the "only one who hasn't been married thing". And the other three really are bound together by very personal loss and anguish that was set down before and in the first episode. Sam doesn't really get brought into that part of the dynamic until later, and I think that is reflected in how her character relates to the group.


Hee. There are exactly two episodes in Season Five that I haven't seen. Bet that Failsafe is one of 'em.

[destina.livejournal.com]

It's mostly... moments. Like needing Sam to talk him through the bomb in Failsafe (GAH!) and ouch the tape recorder thing in Window of Oppertunity.

...and the 'mind of a child' thing in Menace, and the 'Yu' thing in Fair Game (which is funny, but indicative of dumb!Jack), and his incredibly annoying obtuseness in Homecoming, and so on. Some of it is in the non-verbal body language and the dialogue cues (inattentiveness, saying 'what?' as if he wasn't listening, etc), too.

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

I could never ship a relationship where one person calls the other one "sir".

So I guess Marcie/Peppermint Patty is out?

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Hee!

Well, there are exceptions to every rule, they say.

[katie-m.livejournal.com]

Of course, it doesn't help that she actually makes me cringe in her introductory scene ('reproductive organs', people).

Sigh. Yes. Amanda Tapping apparently laid down the law on that kind of thing sometime in S1, blessings upon her. (Though I actually enjoy Hathor quite a bit.)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Amanda Tapping does sound like the coolness (hee, I like Hathor, too. It's just... too much yet not.).

[iphignia939.livejournal.com]

It seems like with every new show that I fall for, the obsession is deeper and deeper. This is why I must avoid any new media. Seriously. I mean, I spent three hundred dollars on Stargate within a few weeks of seeing my first episode.

Oh, yes. I think I scared the clerk at Best Buy. "So, wait. You want *all* of these?" We will not even talk about the amount of tapes I have. Frelling Sci-Fi and their let's-air-it-25-hours-a-week policy.

I didn't like (hah! dead!) Jonas (the one from First Commandment) but he may have been more attractive when they were actually dating.

I can't get over the fact that he was the dad on Boy Meets World. The dad on Boy Meets World set himself up as a god. That does not parse.

Also, he tried to kill Jack, and that sort of thing makes me cranky.

It's really hard to hate people on this show. Even the bad guys. Sure, yes, Kinsey's evil, but it's Ronny Cox! You can't not love Ronny Cox!

And he's had, like, three love interests in the entire show run, yes? His wife, the dead priestess chick, and the one he mentioned in New Order?

Ishta. Also known as "T'Pol from Enterprise with better hair and not, you know, Vulcan."

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I can't get over the fact that he was the dad on Boy Meets World. The dad on Boy Meets World set himself up as a god. That does not parse.

I spent half the episode wondering where I knew him from and the other half going, "No way, man."

Ishta. Also known as "T'Pol from Enterprise with better hair and not, you know, Vulcan."

Huh. Well, better hair is a good step. Ishta, huh?

[casapazzo.livejournal.com]

I too was very fond of Sam's dead exes. Especially Narim (with the cat - Schroedinger! awwww.)

I'm glad you brought up what brought each member to the team, how Sam was the only one assigned - I hadn't ever thought about that, though it's incredibly obvious now. I always felt one big thing that kept her from "belonging" quite as organically was that her character gets used as deus ex machina more than the others. If there's a last-minute quick fix, if it's not Thor, it's usually a device/solution whipped up by Carter. And while that can be explained in-character by Sam's notorious brilliance, it starts to feel artificial when you're on the outside, and I think that bleeds over into perception of her character and not just the storyline.

And to her shifting between soldier and scientist - I would definitely like to hear your take on that. It's been a satisfying shift to me, because while I would say that she thinks of herself as a scientist first and a soldier second, she is a career soldier, not a scientist just drafted into classified work by the military. She's a damned major in the military, and in the first few seasons I felt there were ...overly-sensitive moments that didn't click with my notion of a life-long soldier's behavior. And I couldn't always explained them away by her characterization as a scientist - it felt to me like the writers had her behave that way because she was a woman soldier, which was irritating.

(To clarify: the ultimate example of what I'm talking about is from Seth, when she kills him. Here's someone who's very clearly the bad guy, no ambiguity about the situation, or about what the correct response should be. Evil goa'uld, trying to escape, has shot her father, about to shoot her -- so why is she so shaken after she kills him? She looks so troubled, so disturbed with herself, and I can't reconcile that with someone who's a military officer with combat experience out the wazoo.)

Stupid!Jack -- I can't think of any particular moments right now, but there is a lot of "Jack has ADD" behavior, which is amusing while you're watching, but sometimes gets too frequent or overplayed, inconsistent with a highly-decorated special ops col. who preumably would've had to be able to focus and sit still occasionally.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I too was very fond of Sam's dead exes. Especially Narim (with the cat - Schroedinger! awwww.)

Narim was the adorable-est. Yes. I was so happy to see him again. Though sad to see him join Sam's ranks of victims.

I'm glad you brought up what brought each member to the team, how Sam was the only one assigned - I hadn't ever thought about that, though it's incredibly obvious now. I always felt one big thing that kept her from "belonging" quite as organically was that her character gets used as deus ex machina more than the others. If there's a last-minute quick fix, if it's not Thor, it's usually a device/solution whipped up by Carter. And while that can be explained in-character by Sam's notorious brilliance, it starts to feel artificial when you're on the outside, and I think that bleeds over into perception of her character and not just the storyline.

It wouldn't be such a problem if her brilliance weren't so all-emcompassing. I don't have a problem with Daniel's intuitive intelligence because I've read about actual people like him, and all his disciples mesh together, each feeding the others. Sam's brilliance is more foreign to me, more cold. Plus Daniel's brilliance clearly falls over into intellectual arrogance at times, and this is shown in the show, whereas Sam's brilliance is just accepted.

And honestly? The instant that I learned that Hammond was friendly with Jacob, I wondered if that's why she got assigned to Jack's unit. Because she was seriously off-putting in the first couple of episodes, at least with Jack.

And to her shifting between soldier and scientist - I would definitely like to hear your take on that. It's been a satisfying shift to me, because while I would say that she thinks of herself as a scientist first and a soldier second, she is a career soldier, not a scientist just drafted into classified work by the military. She's a damned major in the military, and in the first few seasons I felt there were ...overly-sensitive moments that didn't click with my notion of a life-long soldier's behavior. And I couldn't always explained them away by her characterization as a scientist - it felt to me like the writers had her behave that way because she was a woman soldier, which was irritating.

I definitely think that it makes character sense. It also makes story sense, sets Daniel up as the lone candle-holder, makes his stories more dramatic when set against the Institution and Mission as represented by the Military Presence of Jack, Sam, and even Teal'c at times. I just think that it did distance her and Daniel (though I haven't seen season seven, where she does a lot of divide-healing, I've heard), because she used to bond with him over the science-y stuff and she had less of an opportunity to do that because was busy being the good soldier. Makes sense, but I felt like Daniel lost something in her shift.

Seth is one of the few early season eps that I haven't seen, so I can't comment except to say that it does sound weird.

Stupid!Jack -- I can't think of any particular moments right now, but there is a lot of "Jack has ADD" behavior, which is amusing while you're watching, but sometimes gets too frequent or overplayed, inconsistent with a highly-decorated special ops col. who preumably would've had to be able to focus and sit still occasionally.

Hmm. Interesting.

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

(To clarify: the ultimate example of what I'm talking about is from Seth, when she kills him. [...] so why is she so shaken after she kills him? She looks so troubled, so disturbed with herself, and I can't reconcile that with someone who's a military officer with combat experience out the wazoo.)

Hmm. Just my take, but I think it isn't so much that she killed him, but that she killed him with a Goa'uld hand device. Remember how in "Thor's Chariot" Sam could make the hand device work on her first try, but not the healing device? Jolinar's memories give her the power to kill, but not to heal. And it's pretty clear she's still having trouble dealing with how much those memories have changed who she, Sam, is as an individual.

Also, think "Absolute Power" in which Daniel keeps trying to get the Goa'uld hand device to work and failing, then fantasizes about blasting Teal'c with it. Considering the hand (and healing) devices are controlled by the mind, I can definitely see the scientist in Sam wondering about the ramifications of her mind being sufficiently like a Goa'uld's that she can kill Seth with the hand device. It's gotta be scary.

...And yes. Apparently I think way too much about this kind of stuff. Ooh, another thought. And how Sam tries so hard to use the healing device on Daniel in "Meridian" and just can't do it? Man. Imagine having the power to blast a Goa'uld into the ground, but not having the power to save your friend... Er. yeah. I'll stop now. Hee!