SG-1 -- Rank Disregard

[butterfly]

First, a random ouch -- Daniel shows specific fear of radiation poisoning in Singularity. Scorched Earth thought: Daniel's very good at recognizing that sentience and intelligence are not limited to humanity or even to biological life. Life is life -- is animation and communication. If those two elements exist, then Daniel is willing to extend his faith. Jack tends to value human life over all else -- with a few very interesting exceptions, such as Teal'c and Thor (this is also shown in that he sees life as a robot as no life at all, and that he doesn't want ascension -- if it isn't life as he knows it, then he doesn't want it).

As I was watching Scorched Earth I noticed how often Daniel completely disregards Jack's rank. He often introduces Jack only as "Jack O'Neill" or even just "Jack", even though he regularly introduces Sam as "Major Samantha Carter" or some variation thereof. He'll play the military rank game for her a lot more than he does for Jack. Possibly because Sam having a rank doesn't actually give her authority over him (especially if he is head of civilian personnel, which would not shock me, though I'm curious as to when that would have happened -- have we ever seen him report to another civilian before Weir happens?). Sam can be Major Samantha Carter, but even when they're meeting new potential allies or enemies, Jack is going to be Jack from Daniel's point of view.

Interestingly enough, this sorta goes along with how Daniel expects them to act. Daniel wants Jack to treat people the way that Daniel does. Jack is the person that Daniel probably respects and trusts the most in any world (we've seen this implied a number of times, such as The Devil You Know and Meridian). With anyone else, Daniel will eventually stop trying to talk them over to his side, if they prove too stubborn. With Jack, Daniel's absolutely certain that if Jack only tries, he'll see things just as Daniel does (just look at how he smiles over at Jack at the end of Scorched Earth, certain that now that he's found another way, Jack'll be happy with it). It's completely different from how Daniel treats anyone else that he interacts with. Of course, this was set-up in the movie, when Daniel wins Jack over to his side on not blowing up Abydos. This is probably what convinced him that Jack must be a kindred spirit, even if Jack doesn't want to admit it (just look at how hurt Daniel is whenever Jack does stand firm or block Daniel out, as in Shades of Gray and much of fourth season -- he doesn't just act hurt, he acts betrayed, as if he believes that Jack just naturally should be on his side no matter what. And then he gets pissy and petty, again, in a way that we really don't see when he's talking to other people who shut him out.). Daniel firmly believes that Jack is special (as shown in Absolute Power, when Jack is the only person that he lets close to him, and in Abyss, when he pretty much says that Jack is a superior type of guy).

When Daniel first sees Jack again, in Children of the Gods, he just says, "Jack." He's died for the man, fought with him, and trusted him to lie about Daniel staying on Abydos. Rank is meaningless. This is also a sharp contrast to how he still uses last names with the other members of Jack's team who were with him on Abydos. To Jack, he's now Daniel. To Ferretti and Kawalsky, he's Doctor Jackson.

After Sha're has been kidnapped, he calls Jack 'Colonel' specifically to point out that only one of them is military. Then, he uses it in three other early episodes, Emancipation, Cold Lazarus, and The Nox, while 'on mission' and in the early days, when Daniel possibly feels a little like he's on sufferance with the military and so should at least try to act with military protocol. After that, he mostly seems to dismiss rank as unimportant when it comes to his relationship with Jack, though when talking to other military personnel about Jack, he usually remembers to use Jack's rank (Brief Candle, Lockdown).

Daniel also usually introduces himself without his title. He rarely says, "I'm Doctor Daniel Jackson." The person that he's most often formal with is General Hammond (actually uses his rank and calls him 'sir'), who usually formal back, calling him 'Doctor' or 'Doctor Jackson'. On occasion, Hammond will call him 'son' (Solitudes). Jack calls Daniel 'Danny' (Hathor) or 'Danny-boy' (Holiday) a few times in the early seasons, before Daniel gets his hair cut and stops looking so damn much like Charlie.

In the beginning, Sam and Daniel use titles -- she calls him 'Doctor' in Children of the Gods and uses it on occasion in the first season. After time passes, she uses 'Daniel'.

He calls her 'Captain-Doctor' in Children of the Gods and Cold Lazarus; 'Captain' in Children of the Gods and Brief Candle; 'Captain Carter' in Enemy Within, The Nox, The First Commandment, Hathor (twice), and twice in There But For the Grace of God when asking for her in the alt-SGC; 'Doctor Carter' in Emancipation; 'Doctor' in Emancipation (twice); 'Carter' in Emancipation, Brief Candle, and Cor'ai.

He first calls her 'Sam' in Fire and Water, when he's trapped in Nem's home and calling out for SG-1, and then again in Singularity, when she and Jack are trapped in Antarctia. After that, she's mostly 'Sam'.

For Sam, of course, Jack was Colonel O'Neill for the longest time (and now he's General O'Neill). She has used Jack very occasionally, and he has used Sam even less frequently. Mostly, he calls her 'Carter' or uses her rank. He introduces her by her rank and last name. And note: even in the alt-reality, he says 'Doctor' and not 'Sam'.

Teal'c is Teal'c is Teal'c. For him, Daniel is DanielJackson, or very occasionally, just Daniel. Sam is CaptainCarter or DoctorCarter and then MajorCarter. Jack is first ColonelO'Neill and eventually just O'Neill. As far as I can remember, Daniel is the only member of the SGC that Teal'c ever calls by first name alone (though if I'm wrong, I'd love to know -- I still haven't seen a fair bit of six and seven).

And it's very, very easy to get onto a first name basis with Daniel. Don't be an asshole, and he'll probably be fine with a "Daniel". He's a very reassuring presence.

Comments

[destina.livejournal.com]

After Sha're has been kidnapped, he calls Jack 'Colonel' specifically to point out that only one of them is military.

I didn't get that from his use of Colonel in this situation.

For him, Daniel is DanielJackson, or very occasionally, just Daniel.

Not even 'very occasionally', really. It's a glitch of the first season, before the writers had characterization down pat; Teal'c called him Daniel in Broca Divide and First Commandment, but never after that -- *except* for Forever in a Day, where it was Sha're speaking through Teal'c; the writers were using that as yet another a hint that something weird was up, since Teal'c never calls him Daniel. To Teal'c, Daniel's name is Daniel Jackson.

IDIC

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

It's been a little while since I've seen the episode and my mom has the dvd, but as I remember it, Jack is saying that he has orders, and Daniel says, "I don't care about your orders, Colonel. My wife is out there. So is Skaara." It felt, to me, as if he were saying, "I am not military, don't try to tell me about your orders. This is about my wife and my life and your military has no say in that."

Not even 'very occasionally', really. It's a glitch of the first season, before the writers had characterization down pat; Teal'c called him Daniel in Broca Divide and First Commandment, but never after that -- *except* for Forever in a Day, where it was Sha're speaking through Teal'c; the writers were using that as yet another a hint that something weird was up, since Teal'c never calls him Daniel. To Teal'c, Daniel's name is Daniel Jackson.

It's still there, in the first season, so it's canon, even if the reason that it's canon is because the writers screwed up. In story possibility -- he used it that way on occasion because Jack did, then realized that just 'Daniel' could not sum up the entirety of this person 'Daniel Jackson' that he knows and cares about, and so switched to Daniel Jackson full-time.

Re: IDIC

[destina.livejournal.com]

In story possibility -- he used it that way on occasion because Jack did, then realized that just 'Daniel' could not sum up the entirety of this person 'Daniel Jackson' that he knows and cares about, and so switched to Daniel Jackson full-time.


That's way, way too much of a reach for me to be comfortable with, as extrapolation from canon. But sure, in a fan fiction story? Go for it. As you say -- IDIC. :)

[thewildmole.livejournal.com]

It's still there, in the first season, so it's canon, even if the reason that it's canon is because the writers screwed up. In story possibility -- he used it that way on occasion because Jack did, then realized that just 'Daniel' could not sum up the entirety of this person 'Daniel Jackson' that he knows and cares about, and so switched to Daniel Jackson full-time.

I'd have to agree with Destina that's too much of a reach for me. I think it's characteristic of the Jaffa speech patterns more than anything else.

For example, Bra'tac generally refers to all the SG-1 members in a more formal manner as well. He refers to Hammond as "Hammond of Texas" and later to Jack (in S8) as "O'Neill of Minnesota". In "Family", Rya'c refers to his mother as being "Drey'auc of the so-and-so". Since there is no indication that Jaffa have first and last names like the Tau'ri, that's how they identify particular people. IMO, it's largely more a function of how Teal'c is used to and is comfortable addressing people than a conscious, emotionally-based decision on how "Daniel" didn't fit, but "Daniel Jackson" does. (As well as the writers trying to iron out character issues and get some consistency, but hey...that's another story *g*).

But if you wanted to explore your reasoning for the changing of the way Teal'c addresses Daniel in a story, go for it :). As was also earlier stated - IDIC :).

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Though Teal'c does call Rya'c, Drey'auc, Shau'nac, Bra'tac and Ishta by just their names, yes? Unless I've utterly blanked out that he doesn't.

[thewildmole.livejournal.com]

Yes, but I think that's more a function of familiarity and/or age. When Teal'c was younger, he referred to Bra'tac as "Master Bra'tac" because he was Teal'c's teacher as well as higher up on the food chain as a First Prime. (IIRC, you can see that in the flashback in "Threshold" and I *think* - have to check - he originally introduced Bra'tac to SG-1 with the honorific of "Master"). You also wouldn't call your wife, child or girlfriend by their full name all the time. Differing degrees call for different means of address.

For example, I think he refers to Jack as "O'Neill" in the same way he calls Bra'tac by his first name (now). IMO, he sees Jack and himself as warriors - equals, kinda. There is that brotherhood there.

With Sam, he'd seen her fight and she knew she had skills in that area, yet she is also highly educated as well - as is Daniel. For the both of them, addressing them as "Major/Colonel Carter" and "Daniel Jackson" can also be a form of addressing them respectfully for their intellectual abilities as well; a version of the "Master" that Teal'c used to use to address Bra'tac.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Ah. Threshold. Um. I think that I blanked out most of that episode. I really do like Teal'c, I just find him a little boring sometimes.

And skips the 'doctor' with Daniel because Daniel himself never uses it, while Sam does use her rank sometimes? I can buy that. Plus, his respect for Daniel seems more personal than his respect for Sam. Not that he respects Daniel more but that it comes for a different place, more laced with guilt and reverence.

[fanaddict.livejournal.com]

It's interesting how names and ranks can be used as distancing mechanisms as well as to show bonds. That said, I think to a certain extent it all comes down to background rather than showing something specific about the relationships. Daniel is civilian - but more importantly, he's an academic PhD. Speaking as one, we tend to ignore the Dr part almost entirely because titles/rank mean less than what a person is working on. A person is given the respect s/he deserves for what they do, not any title they might have.

With that mindset in mind, to Daniel, Jack's rank is irrelevant - he considers them to be on even ground. He initially gives Sam her title as a sign of respect and formality because they don't know each other and he's being polite - but in RL, they'd have been past the doctor business immediately unless he was referring about her to someone else where her degree/rank made a difference (same as he does with Jack). Teal'c is, well, Teal'c. And General Hammond he feels has seniority and deserves the respect of a sir and his rank, which means more to military men than a dr does to Ph.D's. So, while I do think that what Daniel call the others in some way shows how he thinks of them compared to his own status, I don't think it actually reveals most of the nuances of his relationships with them.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

And Daniel may hesitate to use his title when off-world simply because it may not mean a thing on whatever planet they're on or because it might make people assume that he's a medical doctor.

I find the various facts and details to be interesting. Not conclusive, more like delicate strokes of color into the big picture.

[merryish.livejournal.com]

I totally have a name kink, so I love this thread. =)

Just the other night, I rewatched Stargate (the movie) because I wanted to find out, specifically, when Dr. Jackson became Daniel to Jack, and when Colonel O'Neill became Jack to Daniel.

Not too surprisingly, Daniel became Daniel right after Daniel created the distraction that saved Jack and his men. Back at the base camp, Daniel corners Jack into telling the others about the bomb, and Jack refers to him as Daniel. The rest of the time it was Dr. Jackson, or just Jackson.

Jack, on the other hand, doesn't seem to become Jack until...Children of the Gods. As far as I can tell, "...Hi, Jack..." is the first time Daniel calls him that. The occasional "Colonel" that comes later I write off to point-making or situational naming, because by and large, Jack is just Jack. He's the reason Daniel didn't seal the Stargate again after something came through it, cut himself off from Earth again forever. Because what came through it was a message from Jack.

Jack, by the way, does the same thing to Daniel that you mention above. Daniel is almost always Daniel in the introduction phase. More often than not, if Jack is doing the introductions, it's "I'm Colonel Jack O'Neill, this is Daniel, Major Carter, and Teal'c." The order of the introduction varies, but Daniel is very, very rarely introduced as Dr. Jackson or Dr. Daniel Jackson.

Now, Teal'c doesn't actually *have* another name as far as we know, and he can't wander around calling Sam *Sam*, and Jack himself is the leader and he needs people to know it. So the only time Jack can show any informality in his introductions is with Daniel. This makes sense on a lot of levels - first, for me, in that Daniel is the one he's known longest and knows best, and the one he came out of one of the darkest times in his life with. We know from Cold Lazarus that Daniel recognizes that Jack's friendship and confidance is rare -- he tells Sam that Jack only really talks about his son when he gets to know a person better. So there's that connection, and that's the one I always think of first.

But also it makes sense in terms of a First Contact. Daniel's their go-to guy for cultural matters and diplomacy, and Jack is firmly aware of that. Jack can't get too close, because he may have to make extremely difficult decisions and he knows that. And Sam can't get too close, because she's going to have to back him up on those decisions. Teal'c ... well, Teal'c spends a great deal of time looking big and dangerous, especially in earlier seasons, so he's not going to be able to serve as any kind of advocate for the natives of another world. Daniel, on the other hand -- it's his job to do that, and he's good at it, and so it makes sense that in introductions Jack would "nominate" Daniel as "the nice guy you should be friends with" by giving his first name. It's a chink in the SG1 armor -- a good chink, one that they put there on purpose.

Which, in turn, puts Jack and Daniel at odds a lot of the time. I think it's brilliant. Jack is there to advocate for Earth; Daniel is there to advocate for the natives. Not *just* for that, but it's definitely one of his acknowledged functions -- Jack calls Daniel their "conscience" in Fire and Water (or did I make that up?) When those two advocaciees conflict, Jack and Daniel argue. And since those two advocacies conflict *a lot*, Jack and Daniel argue a lot. So much that they've gotten so very good at it that they can do it with just each other's first names. =)

Anyway. Name things. I love it. =)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Not too surprisingly, Daniel became Daniel right after Daniel created the distraction that saved Jack and his men. Back at the base camp, Daniel corners Jack into telling the others about the bomb, and Jack refers to him as Daniel. The rest of the time it was Dr. Jackson, or just Jackson.

Aw. And yeah, I do remember that Jack still says, "Doctor Jackson" at the very end of the movie, but I didn't remember him saying 'Daniel' in the bomb scene. Sweet.

Jack, on the other hand, doesn't seem to become Jack until...Children of the Gods. As far as I can tell, "...Hi, Jack..." is the first time Daniel calls him that. The occasional "Colonel" that comes later I write off to point-making or situational naming, because by and large, Jack is just Jack. He's the reason Daniel didn't seal the Stargate again after something came through it, cut himself off from Earth again forever. Because what came through it was a message from Jack.

Right. Jack sent through something that very much spoke to a personal and not military relationship. "I know you" is what that box said. Then Jack all tries to pull away in the very beginning, be all official, but he's already shown weakness. Even his act of ignoring Daniel only highlights that there is something here to ignore.

Which, in turn, puts Jack and Daniel at odds a lot of the time. I think it's brilliant. Jack is there to advocate for Earth; Daniel is there to advocate for the natives. Not *just* for that, but it's definitely one of his acknowledged functions -- Jack calls Daniel their "conscience" in Fire and Water (or did I make that up?) When those two advocaciees conflict, Jack and Daniel argue. And since those two advocacies conflict *a lot*, Jack and Daniel argue a lot. So much that they've gotten so very good at it that they can do it with just each other's first names.

Interestingly, Jack also calls Daniel specifically SG-1's 'voice'. I do agree with it in many ways. We're shown more than once that, ultimately, Jack has many of the same goals as Daniel (Spirits, Touchstone, Shades of Gray, more that I can't remember). That they do share many common ethical beliefs. But Jack is constrained by the rules of the military while Daniel isn't. Daniel has the freedom to follow his instincts and look for possiblity, while Jack is trained to be on the look-out for trouble.

Now, there are places where they genuinely disagree. Jack doesn't, for example, believe that robots 'count' when it comes to ethical consideration. He doesn't think that tissue samples and a computer library count. Daniel is there to argue where Jack, Sam, and Teal'c feel that they have no right to, Jack and Sam because they are military, Teal'c because he's not of this world.

[minnow1212.livejournal.com]

>so it makes sense that in introductions Jack would "nominate" Daniel as "the nice guy you should be friends with" by giving his first name.<

Oh! I'd never even considered that. Neat thought to add to butterfly's neat thoughts.