BtVS/AtS -- Initial Buffy&Wes thoughts

[butterfly]

The Buffy the Vampire Slayer series finale, Chosen, really resonated with me, right from the first viewing. But I was never able to find just the right words (words are, in the end, always inefficient -- they never encompass the deepness of what I feel).

Interestingly, the making of the Wesley vid is giving me some of the right words.

The reason that season seven resonates with me on an emotional level is because of the completion of a series-long theme -- deconstructing the demonization of female power. The Watchers have long been a symbol of patriarchy on the show ('this is how women and men have behaved, since the beginning'). The switch-and-bait aspect of the Slayer myth is an essential part of it all.

It's about the reduction of female power.

About taking female power and putting limits on it, putting it into the control of men (as we see in Restless, the First Slayer in chains). It's about making it sound dangerous and unnatural (side note: many people also disliked Family, an episode that deals with exactly the same issue of falsely claiming that female power was, in essence, demonic).

And we get to see that from the other side in Damage, where the Slayers are free from outside control (and, again, this is interpreted by many fans as a bad thing). This issue is also addressed in the direct demonization of Cordelia and Fred (again, on Angel, we see the issue from the viewpoint of male-directed characters instead of female).

In many ways, Wesley starts out as a parody of a Watcher but, in the end, he understands what a Watcher should be -- nothing at all like his father and nothing at all like a general. With Illyria, their relationship is one of equals, and he's not a Watcher but a Guide, giving Illyria a reason to care about humanity and about fighting the good fight.

I mentioned the other day that I feel a connection between Buffy and Wesley's arcs, not the least because they are the ones that illustrate to us (separately) that the ideal relationship is not that of a Slayer and her Watcher, but of a Guardian and a Guide. It's not about killing, but about protecting. It's not about instructing, but about sharing knowledge.

Other reasons include, but are not limited to, the Buffy/Spike=Wesley/Lilah line of thought and thoughts regarding the earlier comical aspects of each character (Movie!Buffy and BtVS!Wesley).

Comments

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

In many ways, Wesley starts out as a parody of a Watcher but, in the end, he understands what a Watcher should be -- nothing at all like his father and nothing at all like a general. With Illyria, their relationship is one of equals, and he's not a Watcher but a Guide, giving Illyria a reason to care about humanity and about fighting the good fight.

God, so true.

Love your little essay. Keep sharing your thoughts-- anytime, really. & :-)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

And yeah, Wesley's arc gives me such a complicated little set of emotions -- proud and still upset and... complicated. He was a good man.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

He was a good man.

He was. *sniffles*

[blueswan9.livejournal.com]

I always enjoy reading your thoughts. I was watching Potential last night and it seems to me it fits in with what you've mentioned. It was about empowering women. Buffy explains what their power is, but in the end she locks the potentials in with a vampire so they can find it for themselves/in themselves. On one level it horrified me, because the possibility that at least one of the girls might not have been able to tap into that strength/power. On the other it was liberating to watch, and encouraging to see Buffy trust in that power enough to take the risk.

The example of Dawn and Amanda was wonderful. I loved Dawn even more as she told Amanda the power was in her and she could do what needed doing. Not so much giving Amanda power as helping her uncover it. I thought that was a lovely moment.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Exactly. And because society still holds women back, still believes that they aren't as capable as men, it is a shock to see women take control, especially in a way that doesn't diminish men (another thing Joss was great at was making strong women without making weak men).

The example of Dawn and Amanda was wonderful. I loved Dawn even more as she told Amanda the power was in her and she could do what needed doing. Not so much giving Amanda power as helping her uncover it. I thought that was a lovely moment.

The whole story of Dawn in S7 is pretty beautiful. I am so amazed at how she grew up in only three years.

[minim_calibre]

Yay! Thoughts!

(Sadly, while I have two hands at the moment, my brain has gone AWOL. But, um, yeah. Word and stuff.)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Hee. Thank you. And this is but a minor foreshadowing of a much larger essay that only needs some fact-checking, so there will be more thoughts later.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

And we get to see that from the other side in Damage, where the Slayers are free from outside control (and, again, this is interpreted by many fans as a bad thing). This issue is also addressed in the direct demonization of Cordelia and Fred (again, on Angel, we see the issue from the viewpoint of male-directed characters instead of female).

Ooh good point! I never thought of it like that before. Ats was a much more male show that gave Wesley prominence over Cordelia for example (in season Wes becomes boss after Angel, with Cordy not even considered). And Gunn and Wesley were able to handle themselves again demons in the way that Cordy and Fred were not consistently allowed to do (other than in the occasional episode like Billy). The men were allowed to become more powerful, in fact Cordy almost becomes the motherly figure of the group, particularly with Conner in season 3. Cordy gives birth to Jasmine, becomes pregnant in Expecting. Fred ends up the passive vessel for Illyria.

Unlike Bts where Willow played a far more important role than Giles and Xander ultimately (in terms of screen time and story importance they became very much bit players in comparision).

So when the metaphor of slayer power switches from Bts to Ats, having Dana be the example of untamed slayer power that needed to be controlled, makes a lot of sense from that angle.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Ooh also in Sanctuary Buffy is portrayed as a bit of a bitch. Throwing punches at Angel unprovoked, and then eyes watering when he hits back. Not exactly a positive portrayal of a female with power.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Exactly -- and then later, we see Willow over on AtS, where it appears as though she is unaffected by her trials on BtVS. Because she's there to help Angel. It's Willow from the outside, helpful but ultimately not very deep. Angel doesn't know Willow well enough and Angel is not the feminist that Joss is. I love him, but he... really isn't. Angel sets women apart as special, something to be protected. He hasn't had a 'woman are people!' revelation.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

*nods* My Ats guide points out that in Billy Angel is not treating women equally. He sees Lilah all bruised and looks sorry for her and hesitates. But he would not have responded in that way to Lindsay. He very much has the protective male vibe.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

The example of Lindsey and Lilah is very informative of Angel. Lindsey, who is all kinds of ambigious, right from the first season, gets kicked on and ultimately killed while trying to do good (it's also interesting to compare Angel's treatment of Faith to that of Lindsey). Lilah was killed by Cordy (female lust for equality in the eyes of humanity?) and then remained trapped in her contract to Wolfram and Hart. And while Angel is fully willing to threaten Lilah, the only time that we actually see him ready to kill her is for the sake of his son (god, the analytical possibilities in that).

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I guess it's part of tv as well, in that Angel couldn't very well be shown roughing up Lilah, even when she deserved it. He was very harsh on poor Lindsey in comparison :/ And right from the start he was Faith's biggest champion, but as Faith had tortured his friends, it seems a bit much that he considered her more redeemable than Lindsey. In Blind Date Angel gave Lindsey practically no encouragement whatsoever, without W&H's money and security it's likely Lindsey would have had nothing, so no wonder he went back to them. Maybe Angel should have offered the cuddles and sanctuary that he offered Faith ;)

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

::nods, nods::

Exactly.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

I disagree that the reason many fans took issue with the Cordy/Illyria plots was because their arcs were seen from a male perspective and therefore somehow "misinterpreted" as evil, or demonic.

Illyria, while obviously in a woman's body, was quite clearly neither male nor female- she referred to herself multiple times as a God-*King*, and the fact that the shell she inhabited happened to have a vagina attached to it did not make her powers any less dangerous.

I saw a review which talked about a helpless female being attacked by armed men in the ep "Time Bomb" and for the life of me, could not figure out what show this person was watching. Illyria was far from helpless. She could not control her powers, and that would have led to planetary destruction on a nuclear scale. Angel and Co. did what they had to do to the survival of their own species.

Evil!Cordelia, while annoying to me for the character assasination aspect alone, was also not inherently evil just because of being female. She was used *because* she was a woman, as a womb, an incubator, and no one felt that loss more than those who loved her - most of whom happened to be male. But more importantly, in the end, with You're Welcome, she took her power back and accomplished everything she needed to- in less than 24 hours, and with more grace and aplomb than any of her male counterparts could have hoped for. She manned a sword and kissed a man. And, she was key in Not Fade Away, and the plan to destroy the higher evil.

Angel was always a darker show, with a cast more heavily populated by men. But Angel vs. BtVS is not about men vs. women. It's about adult choices vs. choices made while growing up.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I disagree that the reason many fans took issue with the Cordy/Illyria plots was because their arcs were seen from a male perspective and therefore somehow "misinterpreted" as evil, or demonic.

Oh, I don't think that they were misinterpreted as not evil (though I do think that Illyria wasn't ever evil, but amoral -- Jasmine, though, definitely made an evil choice at the end. And the difference between them is, of course, that Illyria was willing to learn to walk in the world as less than a god). It's more 'false (or former, for that matter) demon-age' on BtVS versus 'actual demon-age' on AtS. Which, as I re-read that paragraph, I didn't actually clarify. Sorry about that.

Because AtS, as a different show, has utterly different themes (shown most clearly in the difference between Willow on Orpheus and Willow in S7 of BtVS), as it should.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Eep! Then, I misunderstood. Apologies. :}