Rabble-Rousers...

[butterfly]

People have opinions. People have very strong opinions sometimes. And people who have different strong opinions can and will disagree. And this is just discussion. It's often productive and can lead to good things.

But once you've said something that comes across as a moral judgement, then the productivity tends to fall. And people certainly have the right to say those things, but they should not be surprised when people feel personally insulted (well, again, they certainly can be surprised, but after it's happened several times, acting surprised makes them look either a. incredibly naive and possibly amnesiac or b. like they're trying to start a fight).

I mean, I read a post where someone asks "How can you not see [RPS] as ethically creepy?" and think... "Because... I don't. My ethics say that fantasy and reality are different things and different rules apply to them."

By saying that your ethics and morals are the only valid ones, you've just said that mine are invalid. Now, is that a fair opinion and do you have the right to say it? Sure. But you shouldn't be shocked if a person who isn't creeped out by RPS takes offense to the idea that this makes them morally bankrupt.

Similarly, implying or saying that the reason that people don't write or read Jack/Sam and are icked out by it is because they are sexist will offend people. You have the right to believe that it makes someone sexist. But you should not surprised when people take offense at the implication that they are sexist.

You should not be surprised if people are offended by the implication that they are racist. Etc.

Say whatever you want, definitely. But the world is cause and effect. People will react to what you say and they have just as much right to do that. Say whatever you want... and be prepared for the consequences. That's just life.

Comments

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

*fangirls you wildly*

Yes, yes, WORD to everything you say here. I'm a pretty mellow person, and usually quite willing to overlook implications that I'm moral bankrupt because I like RPS, or misogynistic because I like slash, but -- dude. You can't expect everybody to be zen when you accuse them of stuff like that. Other people have a right to their words and their feelings as much as you do.

[twistedchick]

In a discussion on an emotionally fraught topic, I wouldn't even begin to look for 'validation' of anyone's opinion. Validating people's opinions is not generally the purpose of such discussions. All opinions are equally valid until proven otherwise; the way in which they are or are not backed up by fact, reason or other substantiation is what 'validates' them.

In other words, what anyone else says about their own opinion has no power to 'invalidate' your opinion unless you give it that ability. Opinions aren't parking stickers. Nobody here is the Opinion Police, going around 'invalidating' your opinion sticker.

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

"Creepy" is one thing, but "ethically creepy"? What does it even mean?

[theamyrlin.livejournal.com]

RPS... while I may not be a fan of it in any way... seems like a ridiculous thing to fight about. Other moral issues like abortion or the death penalty -- ones that have real repercussions in the real world -- are something to fight about. (I'm not a fan of fighting over anything at all.) If people don't like RPS, all they have to do is not read it. No one is getting hurt by it. Why would they care?

[elz.livejournal.com]

But once you've said something that comes across as a moral judgement, then the productivity tends to fall.

Definitely. And people often try to couch these things in academic language, but I don't take academics any more seriously when they toss off generalized moral judgments about things they dislike. Really, in any context, the more you generalize (especially about groups to which you do not belong) and the more you use inflammatory language, the more likely you are to make people grumpy.

[ellemem.livejournal.com]

"How can you not see [RPS] as ethically creepy?"

I'll admit, when I first came to LJ years ago, it was for the BtVS/AtS and SV slash. When I first came across RPS, I did think it was.... "weird."

But geez. There's a difference between reality and RPS. And as long as you can keep the two seperate, you're fine. People who can't see or tell the difference have other things to worry about.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It's really kind of annoying the way people basically want to take their emotions and turn them into some sort of universal truth. Like there's no reason for them to really consider why they find something icky and whether that truly translates into it being bad. If you can't come up with a non-hypocritical reason that it's really hurting someone maybe it's just a personal boundary for you and not a universal one.

RPS is especially weird nowadays when it seems like stars *themselves* are getting into it. What do you do, for instance, with a show like "Fat Actress" where Kirstie Alley plays herself, with other celebs either playing themselves or playing fictional characters? Isn't that RPF?