Serious Fandom Stuff (Oxymoron?)

[butterfly]

I can be brave on here sometimes, talking about how I've hurt myself or about how things that happened several years ago affected me. And it's helped, so much. Miles more than therapy ever did. I never really got over the whole 'paying someone to care' thing.

Anyway, here is what happened. From my point of view.

I sent a comment back to thebratqueen today. It's the first time that I've said a word to her since I rabbited out of the rpg community over a year back.

She talked to me first. I was commenting to ros_fod and mentioned that I still hadn't gotten up the courage to talk to TBQ. And TBQ replied on that and told me that she never held it against me.

I cried for a good minute or two before I could respond. Cried again when I actually managed to write her something back. Because, god, I missed talking to her so much. I missed her so much and it was my own fault.

Because what glossing did to me wasn't so bad. Nothing like what I've heard from other people. Glossing was never on my friendslist and I wasn't on hers. There was no feeling of personal betrayal.

So, the situation -- there's an rpg. A bunch of us are on it and the rpg is just rampant with the casual drug use and sex. What I did was start a side thread with glossing. And my side thread was about AIDS. For personal reasons, I wanted to do something that had serious consequences. Glossing didn't.

And that would have been fine. Everything that she said to me was above board. She said that she didn't want to go that far with the storyline and that we should drop it. No issue, right?

Except she then posted, in her journal, saying that, and let me see if I remember this correctly, that the only reasons she could think of for me to introduce that into the storyline were either so that I could kill off the female character so that the male character wouldn't have guilt about forming a relationship with his male friend or to create cheap drama. I can't quote it directly, as it seems to be flocked now.

I was completely blown away. I mean, if you know me, you know how far off that is. And she never told me about the post, never indicated in her email to me that she thought that about me. If it hadn't been for someone who read her flist and alerted me to her post, I might never have known about what she'd said.

Making assumptions like that about people and airing them is damaging, especially when your only evidence is an rpg.

But what happened after was my fault. I ran. This is what I do when I'm hurt. I switched schools because two boys wrote hurtful things about me in an 'underground' newsletter.

In the days immediately following the kerfluffle, I hid out at my journal and, basically, tried to think of good things about myself. I asked my flist why they friended me, because I really needed to hear people tell me that they liked me. I felt so needy and stupid and broken, and I craved the knife like a junkie.

All of which I hate. And it was the first and only time that something related to my beloved Buffy made me feel that way.

This is what I posted immediately following it all (Warning: does contain some SI talk).

"Some days, you want to show people the stuff you hate about yourself. Some days, you just...

Some days are bad days."

In the post after that, I talk about the details of my feelings and why I went where I did, without mentioning any names.

But yes, glossing attacked me, personally, without asking me a damn thing about where I was coming from. And that does deserve to be known, because she's done that so many times and I don't want to see it happening to anyone else.

Comments

[umbo.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

I've read some of the posts by some of the folks who've been Glossed, but you're the first person on my actual friends list who's posted about it. I don't know glossing, and after what I've read here and other places, I don't want to know her, but I do feel bad that she's hurt so many people.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

Thanks, honey. And you should be glad that you never ran into her. She's really good at what she does.

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Definitely brave. So very brave. *hugs* Thank you for sharing this, and I'm so sorry you were made to feel badly when clearly it didn't even have anything to do with you or your ideas. You know, I'm usually of the "keep quiet about stuff" school of thought. Don't say anything, keep your head down. But in this instance, yeah. This stuff totally needed to be said out in public so people are informed and on their guard. So yeah, I admire your courage.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

Thank you, sweetheart.

It was scary, but now that it's been done, it's so freeing. I don't have to carry her inside me anymore. I feel lighter and cleaner for it.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

I've never interacted with Glossing, and I think I'm the better for it. You shouldn't have had to endure those kinds of attacks. Good for you, for telling us the details. You're very brave. *hugs*

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

Thanks, honey. And yes, you are so much better off for not knowing her. Her claws are sharp; I was only hit with the faintest scratch. So many people have been mauled. She's gotten people to give her money. She's done this to people she's met in person. My story really is only the very tip of the iceberg.

[ros-fod.livejournal.com]

Oh, sweetheart.

Again and again and again, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. You'll never get an apology from glossing, but I hope that knowing people understand now and knowing that you loved will help.

You are *so* brave to spell this all out.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

It's helped so much. God, just seeing the number of people who've been glossed. I wish I'd said something sooner.

But I didn't want to cause a fuss. Thank you for your post, darling, because you gave me the courage to write this.

[noorie.livejournal.com]

possibly shouldn't've read this, but it wasn't f-locked and i'm curious by nature... er, anyhow, i just have to salute your courage and openness, both with this post and the SI post you've made a few days ago. you rock.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

And no worries. If I were concerned about who might read it, I would have locked it.

[mogigraphia.livejournal.com]

Hi. You were the person publicly Glossed immediately before me. I remember posting a message of support to Glossing when she posted her attack on you -- mainly because I had my own completely separate issues with the Soup at the time and was glad of a chance to air them. I didn't realise until too late that Glossing was not presenting the facts as they actually were.

I have never apologised even though I very quickly realised how misrepresented you had been -- mainly because you don't know me, so why should you care what I thought? I've changed my mind after Ros' oh so important post today.

I am sorry for believing Glossing, even for a second.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

The whole thing really did blow up. Honestly, it was a little too unformed to last for too long without something like that. If people reading and writing the rpg are getting uncomfortable, then it's time to talk. But by the time we did, it'd already exploded. Too late to save Soup, really.

I don't blame anyone for believing glossing. She did a rant, not too long ago, where she slammed Willow, and reading that is when I realised that she's just like Willow. And most people adored Willow.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

As I just told violetsmiles, I haven't been involved in the latest troubles-- or many before that, really--, but just from what I've experienced and whom I've known on my friendslist, I'm sorry you, too, were hurt. Even braver of you to stand up like this: I admire your courage and openness-- always have. *hugs*

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

Thanks, honey. I probably wouldn't've been able to, without ros' post. So glad she posted that.

[ashylogic.livejournal.com]

I've owed you an apology for some time now. When I leaped to defend Gloss, I wasn't told all the details and foolishly ended up defending something that now makes me sick to my stomach. I'm sorry, Butterfly, that I didn't get all the information first and that I foolishly believed what was being said about you. I know that doesn't make it right, but it needed to be said.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

And it may not change anything that happened, but you and me, we're fine.

I wasn't mad at or hurt by anyone but gloss and myself. Because she was a good writer, a very, very good writer. When you don't know either side, it makes sense to side with the person you know, who is also someone willing and able to make her case in very clear 'right vs wrong' terms.

[swmbo.livejournal.com]

ashlyn26 let me know about your post - I owe you an apology, too, and we don't know each other. But I had glossing friended at the time, and was reading Soup, and when she posted, I weighed in support of her.

And I'm even more sorry reading this and realizing how much it hurt you. And you have nothing but my admiration (for what little it's worth) for talking about it.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I've read your stuff, sometimes, via links and such. Don't think that I've ever commented (see above, re: being brave).

I never associated you with what went down, only gloss.

So many people have been taken in by gloss that it's clear that she's just really, really good at the talking thing. I always did admire her writing on Soup, even when I thought it was too slick.

[swmbo.livejournal.com]

I am glad that you've got another chance to come to terms with things, and that the truth has been revealed.

And if you ever wander across my LJ again and feel like commenting, I can promise you I do not bite!

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

And if you ever wander across my LJ again and feel like commenting, I can promise you I do not bite!

I'll definitely keep it in mind. Thanks, again.

[jic]

*hugs*

Sucky, yo. People should talk to instead of talking about.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

That they should. But glossing is really good at getting them not to. She was a very good writer, very persuasive.

Very much like Willow, I always thought.

[jic]

Black-hair Willow?

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

No, just Willow, who always got away with everything.

[avrelia.livejournal.com]

::hugs::

YOu are a lovely, lovely person, And I am sorry it happened to you.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

Thank you so much, sweetheart.

[flowery-twat.livejournal.com]

You don't know me at all, but Swm told me I needed to come read this post and she's right. I owe you a huge apology, have done for well over a year now. Cause see I remember Gloss's post about you. And I remember that I jumped in to agree with her and slam you and I did it without even thinking. I was in the first flush of excitment at the idea that someone I percieved as a huge BNF and an amazing writer was suddenly interested in my opinions and hot damn was I gonna give her the right opinions.

I'm glad the post is deleted or locked cause I don't even want to revist what I actually said. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be very proud of myself for it now.

For what it's worth, this long after the fact, I'm really, really sorry. I hate that I let myself be used by someone in such a rotten way without even realizing it.

And I'm really, really glad to finally have this chance to tell you that.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

It's like a bucket-chain of apologies. I feel quite overwhelmed.

Don't worry, I didn't notice any of the specific comments, just the general tide of opinion. The only person who made me feel hurt was glossing.

You didn't hurt me then and you're making me feel better now, so I figure that as far as we're concerned, score is more than even. No worries.

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

I have to join the chorus of apologies here, because I was definitely in on that thread. My own contribution was mostly of hugs for Gloss feeling bad, rather than personal trashing of you, but that was still based on me buying into her presentation of the situation, mostly because it dovetailed neatly with my own concerns about the rpg changing from comedy to drama all over the place, not just in those threads. I contributed to the general appearance of everyone taking Gloss' side, which must've made you feel like a stranger in a strange land when you quite bravely stepped in to defend yourself, and for that I'm sorry.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

It's funny, though. I don't remember the words. I don't remember who said what. I just remember shock at what I'd read, then inarticulate fury that I never figured out how to express, and then this horrible sense of loss and insecurity. And that wasn't anyone's fault. Gloss just happened to pick someone who had an incredibly precarious sense of self at the time.

And that's not her fault. If I'd been as strong then as I am now, it would have happened differently. It happened and the world still turns.

[girlfromsouth.livejournal.com]

Y'know, I'm not even really involved in this besides seeing it splooge all over my friendspage, and being friends with some of the parties involved in all of it (all people I respect and admire immensely). I was on gloss's friendslist for awhile but we never really clicked and she defriended me, but looking at the way it's all washed out--the info on how she's treated people that I really do adore--you, piedmargaret, jane, kita, etc., I can't say that I'm at all sorry and really I'm probably better off.

All that said the best thing I'm seeing coming out of all this? Is that despite the drama, people are talking again, and opening up and forgiving each other and reopening bonds and stuff. And in a place wehre most of these kerfuffles end up being more of the I HATE YOU DIE NEVER SPEAK TO ME AGAIN H0R!! variety, it's really, *really* nice to see and gives me a kind of warm, fuzzy feeling in the midst of all the stupid crap, y'know? So there's a tiny bright side for you.

And *love* for standing up and saying, y'know, hang on, THIS is where it got personal and this is how much it hurt me. GO you, Diana. Really. I'm proud to know you, for that. :) *hugs*

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I can't say that I'm at all sorry and really I'm probably better off.

You are. Like I said above, it wasn't as bad for me as it was for a lot of other people. I wasn't friends with glossing, we just had a professional relationship because of the rpg. And I gave her a really good excuse.

But yeah, I can't regret this kerfluffle at all, just what glossing's been doing. It's good to finally let the poison out, so that it can all really heal.

*hugs*

Thanks, honey.

[elz.livejournal.com]

I had no idea any of this was going on, and it really all seems like such a waste that so many good people were sucked into such an unpleasant situation. I've got nothing but respect for you, and I'm glad that a lot of old hurts are being laid to rest. *hugs*

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you, sweetheart.

It's frustrating, though, to see people still defending her. I worry about them, that it'll happen to them despite all this. Because she's still trying to spin all the things she did to all the people she hurt.

*hugs*

[luvs-phoenix.livejournal.com]

Wow. I remember all that very, very well.

Luvs here aka. Miss Abernathy.

This clears up what happened to you and why it happened. So much is being cleared after a year of bitterness and hurt.

(((hugs))) for coming out and talking about it. Hugs for talking to TBQ. It takes more courage to come out than it does to believe it never happened.

(((hugs)) again cause I wanna.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Hey.

You did a great job. If I never told you. You were a kick-ass scribe.

*hugs*

And it's stuff that is, in the end, best left forgotten, but it has to be said first, I think. Otherwise, it's not being forgotten, it's just festering. Have to get the poison out before you can forgive being bitten.

[luvs-phoenix.livejournal.com]

The more I read, the more I rememebered.

::shudders::

God I remember the doublespeak from her so well and I HAD worked hard to forget it all.

Thanks for the praise, LOL. I'm still not a writer but all in all it was the best experience I ever had at the LJ. I got to meet several of my favorite writers on a persnal level and made many, many friends out of our share love for the Soup.

((hugs))

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

I'd forgotten just how much fun I'd had at Soup. God, I loved it so much. For me, forgetting glossing meant forgetting all of that, too. That's another reason I'm so glad to have said this. I can remember the good parts now.

*hugs*

[fox1013.livejournal.com]

Before I say anything, I will note that I'm good friends with Gloss, so if you want to ignore this entirely, I accept that. But I've also known you since... way before LJ. So, yeah.

Anyway, this isn't about that. I just... think I'm misreading this. You're not blaming Gloss for any of your SI behavior, are you? Because it kind of seems like that, and I don't know how to react to that, and it's really bothering me if that is the case.

You're more than welcome to have your feelings on Gloss that are different from mine (as, I would assume, I am as well), but the way things are put together here makes me a little bit uncomfortable, so I thought I'd ask.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Sweetheart, you know that I love you, even though we haven't really talked in ages.

No, I'm not saying that she caused me to cut, mostly because, yes, I know that I'm the only one making the choice there.

But she did do something not nice to me and I adore you and we are not going to talk about this. I love you and respect your feelings, but as regards to gloss, I am going ask that you please don't mention her in my journal again.

Because it does still hurt.

[fox1013.livejournal.com]

I totally believe you that it hurts. I wouldn't do that; I never did before, and I have no reason to do so again.

But just so you know-- I would have said the same thing if this had been someone I love, someone I hate, or someone I never heard of. This wasn't about the Gloss thing; this is about my Mental Illness Pet Peeve, which has been coming up all over my flist, and I figured I'd ask you rather than freak out at you over it.

Sorry.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Not an issue, sweetheart.

She'll stay a sore spot for me for a while, but it's all finally healing. Because, as I say above, so much of it I did to myself. Gloss said something that hurt me and then I bailed on people that I really and truly admire and care about just because I couldn't handle the fear that popped up whenever I saw an lj comment show up in my inbox. And that was all down to me and my own issues at the time.

Knowing that TBQ never held the fact that I bailed on her against me helped me more than I can ever say. And that was completely my own fault.

I don't know about your relationship with glossing. I never really had a relationship with her -- we sorta interacted because of Soup, but we never did a thread together until the one that went bad. As far as it goes, I don't know anything first-hand about what kind of friend glossing is. Maybe she's great to you. I hope she always is. Don't want to see you get hurt. You were my first real 'net friend. I care more than I ever managed to say.

[breidablik.livejournal.com]

I have to be honest and say that I often don't know what to comment after many of your journal entries. But I always read them and think that, despite everything, you are an incredibly brave person.

And I find myself thinking that again today.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

And honest is good. I don't comment half as often as I'd like, on anyone. But I do read everyone who is on my flist. It's very nice to hear from you.