![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
butterflyTooth and Claw
This really is the episode that showcases how incredibly alike Rose and the Doctor are in their responses to dangerous situations -- it's been a minor note in most of the episodes so far, but it gets the full treatment here.
The flippancy that Rose can show towards danger was first noted in World War Three, when she quips about wanting a body compressor so that she can fit into a smaller size. Harriet Jones, much like Queen Victoria later, isn't amused. Rose explains that the situation feels normal once you've traveled with the Doctor -- with all that she's been through since WW3, she's become even more inured to using humor to leaven the horror of a situation.
Do the Doctor and Rose enjoy (even a little) the rush of being chased by the werewolf? Definitely, I would say. They enjoy chasing and being chased. Both of them tend to sport grins when trouble arrives. They like danger. They don't like death and violence and pain, but they love the rush that comes from being in a dangerous situation and working a way out of it.
School Reunion
I love that Rose is the one to stop the pettiness and get Sarah Jane on the same page as her (I am amused that here, as in The End of the World, thinking of her friend Shireen is what makes Rose realize that she's not helping the situation. For a character that never appears onscreen (that we know of) Shireen sure is helpful.). This really is a very important episode in terms of Rose's characterization, because this is the only time when she considers not continuing with the Doctor. And even here, she's not thinking about leaving because she isn't loving him or the life -- she's wondering if it'll be worth the pain that at least one of them will eventually feel. And Sarah Jane, who felt abandoned and waited for the Doctor and had more reason to feel bitter than most, tells her that it is worth it.
Sarah Jane calls Rose the Doctor's 'assistant' here and it clearly stings -- Rose immediately protests (and is no doubt thinking of the fact that the Doctor got to play teacher while she was forced to be a dinner lady). It's notable that, after this episode, Rose and the Doctor are never placed on unequal grounds in the rest of the series. In Rise of the Cybermen, they're both waitstaff. After that, the Doctor always presents them equally (he explicitly calls her his 'colleague' in Fear Her -- though she's a 'new recruit' and 'in training', both of which are absolutely true. She's only been doing this for two years or so. He's been doing it for nine-hundred.). It bothered Rose and so it changed.
And, oh, that scene outside the diner. It killed me the first time I saw it and it still does. Rose compares herself to Sarah Jane, tells the Doctor that she's afraid of being left behind, and the Doctor flat-out tells her that he won't. "Not you." She's afraid of being forgotten, of not mattering, but she didn't need to worry.
The Girl in the Fireplace
Most of the problems that I have with this episode still exist -- the lack of emotional continuity from School Reunion, the huge plot holes regarding the time streams, the 'love that matters for one day' -- but the Doctor felt so much better.
I think it may be because, the first time, I didn't know how the series would end. I was afraid that they would decrease the importance of Rose's character because of the regeneration. I was afraid that the Tenth Doctor didn't love her with the strength that Nine did. Having seen the rest of S2 and now part of S3, I don't have worry about that. He adored her, absolutely adored her. Thinks she's just about the cleverest, most fantastic person he's ever traveled with.
So, I can still be with Rose while she feels the tiniest hints of worry, but I'm free to care about the Doctor's pain as well. Because, oh, the depth of his sorrow when he looks up at the broken mirror after crashing through. He saved the day, saved Reinette and history and says, "It's over. For you and for me. Talk about seven years bad luck. Try three thousand..."
He's trapped away from Rose and it's over. Breaking the mirror was bad luck. And then when Reinette shows him the fireplace he says, "Which might just mean, if I'm lucky... if I'm very, very, very, very, very, very lucky..."
Yeah, Rose didn't have to worry about the Doctor's heart. Reinette is Jabe plus Shakespeare/Dickens with a little of Lynda thrown in -- she can sympathize with his pain, he has a bit of a celebrity crush on her, and she wants to see the stars.
Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel
And they're tight as can be in these episodes. The Doctor is concerned about Rose with her 'parents', but when a reason to go visit the Tylers presents itself, he takes them in. He's clearly more worried about the effect on her than anything else. And he takes her to hug her mom at the end, when she needs it. He adores her and worries for her and completely respects her.
The Idiot's Lantern
This is the episode where we can see what Jackie worries about in Army of Ghosts, because Rose is becoming more and more like the Doctor by the day -- she's picked up his manic grin, she's leaning over to question people the same way. They say 'hi!' in perfect unison. Rose isn't quite there, yet -- she works it all out, but doesn't escape the alien of the episode. The thing where Jackie's wrong is where she thinks that it's a bad thing. In and of itself, it's neither good nor bad, it's simply the direction that Rose is traveling.
Oh, and this would be another of those times where Rose notices the big, obvious, important clue right off the bat. "Look at all the TV aerials... looks like everyone's got one. That's weird, my nan said tellies were so rare they all had to pile into one house."
And the Doctor explicitly notices this, at the end: "Rose said it. She guessed it straight away, of course she did. All these aerials in one little street - how come?"
And this is the episode where the Doctor suggests they take her plan and try the 'domestic approach' and Rose wonders if it's an insult and then, at the end, the Doctor glories in the street party and Rose says, 'the domestic approach', realizing that it's anything but an insult. That the Doctor loves that she thinks just the way she does.
We also see the depth of the Doctor's rage and pain when he sees the faceless Rose and his relief when he's saved her (starting from his lean as he chats and jokes with Tommy after defeating the Wire -- Rose is safe and he can stop being scary now).
This really is the episode that showcases how incredibly alike Rose and the Doctor are in their responses to dangerous situations -- it's been a minor note in most of the episodes so far, but it gets the full treatment here.
The flippancy that Rose can show towards danger was first noted in World War Three, when she quips about wanting a body compressor so that she can fit into a smaller size. Harriet Jones, much like Queen Victoria later, isn't amused. Rose explains that the situation feels normal once you've traveled with the Doctor -- with all that she's been through since WW3, she's become even more inured to using humor to leaven the horror of a situation.
Do the Doctor and Rose enjoy (even a little) the rush of being chased by the werewolf? Definitely, I would say. They enjoy chasing and being chased. Both of them tend to sport grins when trouble arrives. They like danger. They don't like death and violence and pain, but they love the rush that comes from being in a dangerous situation and working a way out of it.
School Reunion
I love that Rose is the one to stop the pettiness and get Sarah Jane on the same page as her (I am amused that here, as in The End of the World, thinking of her friend Shireen is what makes Rose realize that she's not helping the situation. For a character that never appears onscreen (that we know of) Shireen sure is helpful.). This really is a very important episode in terms of Rose's characterization, because this is the only time when she considers not continuing with the Doctor. And even here, she's not thinking about leaving because she isn't loving him or the life -- she's wondering if it'll be worth the pain that at least one of them will eventually feel. And Sarah Jane, who felt abandoned and waited for the Doctor and had more reason to feel bitter than most, tells her that it is worth it.
Sarah Jane calls Rose the Doctor's 'assistant' here and it clearly stings -- Rose immediately protests (and is no doubt thinking of the fact that the Doctor got to play teacher while she was forced to be a dinner lady). It's notable that, after this episode, Rose and the Doctor are never placed on unequal grounds in the rest of the series. In Rise of the Cybermen, they're both waitstaff. After that, the Doctor always presents them equally (he explicitly calls her his 'colleague' in Fear Her -- though she's a 'new recruit' and 'in training', both of which are absolutely true. She's only been doing this for two years or so. He's been doing it for nine-hundred.). It bothered Rose and so it changed.
And, oh, that scene outside the diner. It killed me the first time I saw it and it still does. Rose compares herself to Sarah Jane, tells the Doctor that she's afraid of being left behind, and the Doctor flat-out tells her that he won't. "Not you." She's afraid of being forgotten, of not mattering, but she didn't need to worry.
The Girl in the Fireplace
Most of the problems that I have with this episode still exist -- the lack of emotional continuity from School Reunion, the huge plot holes regarding the time streams, the 'love that matters for one day' -- but the Doctor felt so much better.
I think it may be because, the first time, I didn't know how the series would end. I was afraid that they would decrease the importance of Rose's character because of the regeneration. I was afraid that the Tenth Doctor didn't love her with the strength that Nine did. Having seen the rest of S2 and now part of S3, I don't have worry about that. He adored her, absolutely adored her. Thinks she's just about the cleverest, most fantastic person he's ever traveled with.
So, I can still be with Rose while she feels the tiniest hints of worry, but I'm free to care about the Doctor's pain as well. Because, oh, the depth of his sorrow when he looks up at the broken mirror after crashing through. He saved the day, saved Reinette and history and says, "It's over. For you and for me. Talk about seven years bad luck. Try three thousand..."
He's trapped away from Rose and it's over. Breaking the mirror was bad luck. And then when Reinette shows him the fireplace he says, "Which might just mean, if I'm lucky... if I'm very, very, very, very, very, very lucky..."
Yeah, Rose didn't have to worry about the Doctor's heart. Reinette is Jabe plus Shakespeare/Dickens with a little of Lynda thrown in -- she can sympathize with his pain, he has a bit of a celebrity crush on her, and she wants to see the stars.
Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel
And they're tight as can be in these episodes. The Doctor is concerned about Rose with her 'parents', but when a reason to go visit the Tylers presents itself, he takes them in. He's clearly more worried about the effect on her than anything else. And he takes her to hug her mom at the end, when she needs it. He adores her and worries for her and completely respects her.
The Idiot's Lantern
This is the episode where we can see what Jackie worries about in Army of Ghosts, because Rose is becoming more and more like the Doctor by the day -- she's picked up his manic grin, she's leaning over to question people the same way. They say 'hi!' in perfect unison. Rose isn't quite there, yet -- she works it all out, but doesn't escape the alien of the episode. The thing where Jackie's wrong is where she thinks that it's a bad thing. In and of itself, it's neither good nor bad, it's simply the direction that Rose is traveling.
Oh, and this would be another of those times where Rose notices the big, obvious, important clue right off the bat. "Look at all the TV aerials... looks like everyone's got one. That's weird, my nan said tellies were so rare they all had to pile into one house."
And the Doctor explicitly notices this, at the end: "Rose said it. She guessed it straight away, of course she did. All these aerials in one little street - how come?"
And this is the episode where the Doctor suggests they take her plan and try the 'domestic approach' and Rose wonders if it's an insult and then, at the end, the Doctor glories in the street party and Rose says, 'the domestic approach', realizing that it's anything but an insult. That the Doctor loves that she thinks just the way she does.
We also see the depth of the Doctor's rage and pain when he sees the faceless Rose and his relief when he's saved her (starting from his lean as he chats and jokes with Tommy after defeating the Wire -- Rose is safe and he can stop being scary now).
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-24 05:13 pm (UTC)He saved the day, saved Reinette and history and says, "It's over. For you and for me. Talk about seven years bad luck. Try three thousand..."
He's trapped away from Rose and it's over. Breaking the mirror was bad luck. And then when Reinette shows him the fireplace he says, "Which might just mean, if I'm lucky... if I'm very, very, very, very, very, very lucky..."
Oooh. Nice observation. I never really put it together about the breaking the mirror and bad luck and him talking about *good* luck later on.
the Doctor glories in the street party and Rose says, 'the domestic approach', realizing that it's anything but an insult.
Totally. Always cracked me up when he said it, because the Doctor pretty much does nothing *but* take the "domestic approach." Just look at The Empty Child when Rose wants him to pull out some alien tech but he's just going to ask people.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-25 02:41 pm (UTC)*nods*
I was really paying close attention to the Doctor this time around and he... yeah, he works for me now. Because the contrast between his 'happiness' talking about the slow path with Reinette and his immediate, hopeful reaction to seeing the fireplace is really kinda glaring once I paid attention.
I once read a fic... I think it might be Belle du Jour (which I think is both hot and a bit darker than the Doctor/Rose relationship I saw on-screen) where Rose thinks of the Tenth Doctor as her 'reward' for coming back in Parting of the Ways. "The Doctor she'd have special-ordered if she could". In some ways, I think that the Doctor feels that way about Rose -- she's his good luck after a run of bad with the Time War, someone lovely and brilliant to keep away the dark shadows of the past.
Totally. Always cracked me up when he said it, because the Doctor pretty much does nothing *but* take the "domestic approach." Just look at The Empty Child when Rose wants him to pull out some alien tech but he's just going to ask people.
Indeed! He much prefers to talk to people first. The Doctor will take people over tech any day of the week. The Idiot Box really does seem to be the episode that dispels of all Rose's little doubts and fears, though.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-25 05:27 pm (UTC)Yeah, there was definitely that distinction from what I remember.
she's his good luck after a run of bad with the Time War, someone lovely and brilliant to keep away the dark shadows of the past.
And there was even a quote in the S2 DVD insert about Rose being the Doctor's reason to fight against the darkness, which I've always thought was lovely.
The Idiot Box
Psst. I think it's "The Idiot's Lantern." :)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-28 05:59 pm (UTC)Very lovely. Reminds me of what the Doctor says in The Shakespeare Code, a bit. I love the way he loves her.
Psst. I think it's "The Idiot's Lantern." :)
Hee! I can't believe I did that. Fixed now, though. Thanks.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-24 07:28 pm (UTC)Interesting. I just noticed that Rose, Reinette and Sarah Jane make a Maiden/Mother/Crone triad. (Madame de Pompadour did have children.) That'd be interesting to play with.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-25 02:50 pm (UTC)Yes! People are all, "She doesn't challenge him!" but he doesn't challenge her, either. The closest he gets are when he's trying to protect her and she won't be protected (Rise of the Cybermen and Doomsday come to mind). They just really get along (and, as I think you mentioned, they don't actually argue much past Father's Day at all -- if we'd still had Nine in S2, we probably would have had exactly the same level of conflict that we had with Ten).
*. He makes no apparent protest at eating Christmas dinner with her, Jackie and Mickey. He knows to take her home at the end of AoS because he realizes she needs to see her mother alive and well. He values her "domestic" approach. These are things that have changed from his former incarnation, things he's learned from her.
Indeed. People who talk about how Rose is compromising herself really seem to be ignoring how much the Doctor changed with/for her (I would have just said 'for', but his behavior since seems to be implying that he's not just more family-inclined this time around, that it was a Rose-specific thing, though we'll have more information if we get to see Martha's family again soon).
Lastly, of course, what he learns from Rose, Reinette and Sarah Jane is to say "Goodbye" properly.
Yes. That's an important lesson. First, Sarah Jane insisting on it, then seeing the pain and hope Reinette went through waiting for him... I can see why he did whatever it took to tell Rose that he'd never be able to see her again. He doesn't want her to tie up her life in hopes of him, like Sarah Jane and Reinette did.
Interesting. I just noticed that Rose, Reinette and Sarah Jane make a Maiden/Mother/Crone triad. (Madame de Pompadour did have children.) That'd be interesting to play with.
Ooo. I've never noticed that before. And, of course, Rose was gone from his life before she could change from Maiden (the idea that she'd moved towards Mother being brought up just to be dismissed in Doomsday) and Reinette died young.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-25 03:52 am (UTC)Oh, me too. Especially since I really liked Sarah Jane. (I’d call her my favorite one-episode character, but she just didn’t feel like a one-episode character, somehow.) I wish she and Rose had gotten to spend more time together (and I hope the Doctor thought to tell Sarah Jane that Rose isn’t really dead).
And yet, in some ways she hasn’t changed at all. After the Doctor sorts out the Wire, she’s the one who encourages Tommy to go and talk to his dad. That’s the Rose I fell in love with. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-25 02:55 pm (UTC)Sarah Jane was spectacular! I really enjoyed her in School Reunion. And David did such an amazing job of expressing pride and joy in her -- it really does feel like he's meeting again with someone ke knows and admires and cares about very much. God, she probably would have heard about Rose's name on the list of the dead and I'm not sure that the Doctor would think about telling her. He can be shockingly thoughtless about people's feelings (particularly people who aren't Rose).
And yet, in some ways she hasn’t changed at all. After the Doctor sorts out the Wire, she’s the one who encourages Tommy to go and talk to his dad. That’s the Rose I fell in love with. :-)
Indeed! And I love the way she comforts and supports Tommy's mom in the middle of the episode. Rose is such a nurturing, supporting presence. Not just for the Doctor, but for most of the people they meet (in The Doctor Dances, Nancy has had several scenes with the Doctor and only one with Rose -- but Rose is the one she calls out to when she sees the gas-mask people coming).
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-25 03:33 pm (UTC)Well, she’s a journalist. I can just see her being assigned to cover the battle at Canary Wharf, and looking over that list (probably not expecting to see a name she recognized). I’m willing to cut the Doctor some slack ’cause he’s grieving, but still.
I can’t believe I missed that! That’s brilliant. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-28 06:02 pm (UTC)Still, yes. Although... I wonder just how much information on Rose survived. We know from Love and Monsters that Torchwood's intell on Rose is very scanty, because it's been destroyed by something called the 'Bad Wolf' virus. If that virus isn't a one-time thing, if it's an on-going destruction of information, then her name on the list of the dead might be the only information out there. Hmm.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-28 10:10 am (UTC)I hope you don't mind, but this has planted a fic bunny in my head and I plan to write it :)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-28 06:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-25 11:37 am (UTC)because Rose is becoming more and more like the Doctor by the day
I know! It's uncanny! Especially when she goes, 'What sort of idiot hangs the union flag upside down?' then flashes this really wide, disturbing grin and ducks out. I wonder if it's deliberate decision on Billie's Part to do that?
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-25 02:59 pm (UTC)I love that about them so much! They're so well-suited for each other.
As for School Reunion, I don't get why some fans think Rose started the bickering with Sarah but re-watching SR it was clear that Sarah started it.
It really, really is. She actually starts it twice -- first with the "assistant", "Oh, look at you, tiger" bit in the beginning, and then with her crack about Rose not being old enough to have covered dissection.
I know! It's uncanny! Especially when she goes, 'What sort of idiot hangs the union flag upside down?' then flashes this really wide, disturbing grin and ducks out. I wonder if it's deliberate decision on Billie's Part to do that?
Seems to be, I think. They're just intensely in sync from this point on. They mesh so well. And that grin of Billie's there is so very Doctor-ish.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-26 03:43 pm (UTC)It's always been a hard episode for me, not just in the way they seemed to dismiss Ten/Rose for the episode, but in the way that NONE of it was ever carried over into RotC.
Because, oh, the depth of his sorrow when he looks up at the broken mirror after crashing through. He saved the day, saved Reinette and history and says, "It's over. For you and for me. Talk about seven years bad luck. Try three thousand..."
I like that. I don't think I've ever thought about it in such simple, obvious terms before. (And you're right; for all the talk of the "slow path," he jumps at the first chance he gets to return to Rose.)
Really interesting meta. I'll probably be coming back to
stalk your journalread your thoughts again. *G*(no subject)
Date: 2007-04-28 06:09 pm (UTC)Hiya! It's nice to meet you.
It's always been a hard episode for me, not just in the way they seemed to dismiss Ten/Rose for the episode, but in the way that NONE of it was ever carried over into RotC.
The lack of emotional continuity is my biggest problem with this episode. When I learnt that Moffat was, essentially, writing in a vacuum, things made more sense. It still bugs me quite a lot, though. Seriously, it sticks out so badly.
I like that. I don't think I've ever thought about it in such simple, obvious terms before. (And you're right; for all the talk of the "slow path," he jumps at the first chance he gets to return to Rose.
Which is think is being mirrored in the current season. So, there's some emotional continuity. A bit. Well, just the part where the Doctor does what he can with what he has. He doesn't have Rose, so he'll be as happy as he can without her (but if they ever show us him finding a way back to her, he might very well mutter that it'll work if he's "very, very, very, very, very lucky").
Really interesting meta. I'll probably be coming back to stalk your journal read your thoughts again. *G*
Ha, thank you. It's always good to meet another Doctor/Rose fan.