Vampires: TVD & Jossverse
Feb. 3rd, 2011 08:59 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
butterflyI was never that into Spike. Or Angel, for that matter. My favorite 'version' of Spike was S7 Spike and it took about four years of Angel for me to get really attached to Angel. In the Jossverse, my sympathies tended to lie pretty firmly with the humans.
What's different about the vampires in The Vampires Diaries?
One big difference is where we start. In S1 of Buffy, Angel isn't known to be a vampire until episode 7. In The Vampire Diaries, Stefan is one of the point of view characters. We're in the point of view of vampirism, right off the bat. Buffy waded into shades of gray over time, and generally using our PoV human characters as a base, while Stefan and Elena are the co-leads for the majority of S1 of TVD. Then Damon becomes a protagonist instead of an antagonist over the course of late S1 and Caroline gets vamped in early S2, giving us 3 vampire leads in the show.
While I'm mentioning Elena, she's another huge point - she's the lead human viewpoint character and, unlike Buffy, she has no duty to go out and stake vampires. We don't get introduced to the idea that vampire hunters exist in this universe until "Family Ties" and, out of the three humans, one is a horrible mother (sorry, Liz! I love you!), one is an abusive father (I don't love you, Richard) and one is an overall scumball (pfft, Logan). It's not the most shining introduction to vampire hunters in the history of fiction. And the appearance of the vampire hunters serves - at that point - mostly to give Damon a virtue (protecting his brother). Completely different vibe from Buffy and her moral duty to slay.
Another huge difference comes from the way that newbie vampires are treated - much more sympathetically in TVD than in Jossverse. Newbie vampires are kinda disposable in the Jossverse. They rise and they get staked and there are a lot of them. There might be single episodes where Buffy kills off more vampires than have been killed in the entire run of TVD so far.
We also have the very extreme motivational differences - the Master wanted to take over the world and turn humanity into his blood slaves. Angelus wanted to destroy the world (and humanity).
Damon wants to save the woman that he loves from an eternity of starvation and wouldn't mind getting revenge on the town that put her there. Anna wants to save her mother from the same. Katherine wants to save her own skin (incidentally, humanity might end up screwed, but that's not a goal of hers). The scope is generally bigger in BtVS.
The scope is bigger for the good guys in BtVS, too. In the Jossverse, atoning for your sins is about actively going out and trying to make the world a better place. In TVD, it mostly seems to be about repressing your killer instincts and possibly about dating high school students. Different scope. Both sides in TVD are more about 'protecting our own' than anything that's about the rest of the world.
This is something that has the potential to change with the whole moonstone plot but it hasn't so far.
Another element is that nothing is as... metaphorical in TVD as it is in the Jossverse. The vampires in TVD feel much more grounded in reality as opposed to being creatures of literary fantasy. You don't lose your soul when you turn, so you can't get it back from a spell. I like that.
Also, for Stefan and Damon specifically - first, their relationship feds on that affection that I feel for them and makes it grow. I'm not sure I'd like either of them anywhere near as much if the other one weren't around. The Spike-Angel relationship does not give me that same effortless (sometimes unwilling) baseline of affection that the Stefan-Damon relationship does.
I'm not making any statements on the quality of one show verses another, but I do like the vampire mythology better in TVD than in the Jossverse. And I think that's also a big part of why I liked Stefan and Damon so much more quickly.
What's different about the vampires in The Vampires Diaries?
One big difference is where we start. In S1 of Buffy, Angel isn't known to be a vampire until episode 7. In The Vampire Diaries, Stefan is one of the point of view characters. We're in the point of view of vampirism, right off the bat. Buffy waded into shades of gray over time, and generally using our PoV human characters as a base, while Stefan and Elena are the co-leads for the majority of S1 of TVD. Then Damon becomes a protagonist instead of an antagonist over the course of late S1 and Caroline gets vamped in early S2, giving us 3 vampire leads in the show.
While I'm mentioning Elena, she's another huge point - she's the lead human viewpoint character and, unlike Buffy, she has no duty to go out and stake vampires. We don't get introduced to the idea that vampire hunters exist in this universe until "Family Ties" and, out of the three humans, one is a horrible mother (sorry, Liz! I love you!), one is an abusive father (I don't love you, Richard) and one is an overall scumball (pfft, Logan). It's not the most shining introduction to vampire hunters in the history of fiction. And the appearance of the vampire hunters serves - at that point - mostly to give Damon a virtue (protecting his brother). Completely different vibe from Buffy and her moral duty to slay.
Another huge difference comes from the way that newbie vampires are treated - much more sympathetically in TVD than in Jossverse. Newbie vampires are kinda disposable in the Jossverse. They rise and they get staked and there are a lot of them. There might be single episodes where Buffy kills off more vampires than have been killed in the entire run of TVD so far.
We also have the very extreme motivational differences - the Master wanted to take over the world and turn humanity into his blood slaves. Angelus wanted to destroy the world (and humanity).
Damon wants to save the woman that he loves from an eternity of starvation and wouldn't mind getting revenge on the town that put her there. Anna wants to save her mother from the same. Katherine wants to save her own skin (incidentally, humanity might end up screwed, but that's not a goal of hers). The scope is generally bigger in BtVS.
The scope is bigger for the good guys in BtVS, too. In the Jossverse, atoning for your sins is about actively going out and trying to make the world a better place. In TVD, it mostly seems to be about repressing your killer instincts and possibly about dating high school students. Different scope. Both sides in TVD are more about 'protecting our own' than anything that's about the rest of the world.
This is something that has the potential to change with the whole moonstone plot but it hasn't so far.
Another element is that nothing is as... metaphorical in TVD as it is in the Jossverse. The vampires in TVD feel much more grounded in reality as opposed to being creatures of literary fantasy. You don't lose your soul when you turn, so you can't get it back from a spell. I like that.
Also, for Stefan and Damon specifically - first, their relationship feds on that affection that I feel for them and makes it grow. I'm not sure I'd like either of them anywhere near as much if the other one weren't around. The Spike-Angel relationship does not give me that same effortless (sometimes unwilling) baseline of affection that the Stefan-Damon relationship does.
I'm not making any statements on the quality of one show verses another, but I do like the vampire mythology better in TVD than in the Jossverse. And I think that's also a big part of why I liked Stefan and Damon so much more quickly.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-03 06:42 pm (UTC)It's not a 'verse that assigns blame as heavily as TVD.
On the other hand, TVD presents us with a world and a mythology whereby if you are changed into something else, you aren't 'somebody' else, but yourself, with extra instincts, powers.
Another thing that I found interesting is how BTVS vampires don't care about newbies.
In TVD, new vampires are groomed, nurtured, and looked after, before and after the change. It's framed as much more of a choice, something that should be considered and afterward the newbie isn't necessarily chucked out into the world. They are valued and taught things, as they are not as humans.
Family is huge in TVD as well, you and I have stressed this, and you see how blood ties do not make a family (something that BTVS showed too) but in TVD there are very clear pack dynamics and while some characters judge others and might come off as a bit self righteous at times, they will band together to defend against somebody who threatens them.
It will be fascinating to see how the werewolves square off against Mystic Falls' pack, because yes, there might be more of them, but they're the tresspassers, and defending home and family puts people normally on edge and crazy right over the other side.
:)
(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-04 05:01 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-04 05:05 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-04 02:33 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-04 05:02 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-02-04 06:45 am (UTC)I love everything about this post. My thoughts: IA, just being in a different universe and framed from the vampire/vampire-friendly POV creates a big divider. Some of the other differences between Spike&Angel vs. Damon&Stefan that I can clearly articulate (most of it is just ~feelings) are: vampires like Spike and Angel don't change by themselves. Their big socialization character arcs come because change is forced on them -- they get chipped, they get a soul. In TVD (like in Being Human) there is no easy out or safety net. Damon's slow and pitfall-laden transition is REAL to viewers because it's earned step by step, and it's coming from INSIDE OF HIM. Also, though Elena is a big inspiration to Damon (which I think is completely earned, as she is amazing in so many ways & you can directly see how she behaves earns respect & devotion from him)... it's not just her working in him. It's hard truths about Katherine, Stefan, and himself. And forming personal connections.
On the other hand, Spike was All About Buffy and she was almost the sole personal connection he made (besides Dawn, her sister). Everything about his revolution was directly about Buffy. Same with Angel when he was on BtVS. Damon not only has his brother he poorly hides devotion to, but he cares about Elena before he's in love with her & by 1x22 he's admitting wants to save the town (and Anna). Everything isn't about Elena. He grows to care about Liz separately from her, and his friendships with Alaric & Rose are separate from her. The couple moments he's had with Jeremy really weren't about Elena either. As Rose said, he's put down roots in Mystic Falls and is building a home. Stefan also isn't solely about Elena. He genuinely cares for Caroline for herself and has a personal connection there. He also obviously has a big connection with his brother.
In the Jossverse, atoning for your sins is about actively going out and trying to make the world a better place.
*nods* Plus, in Angel in the end it was kinda 'oh btw heroes don't have the luxury of love and THERE IS NO REDEMPTION FOR SOME THINGS. just try to be a hero anywayz. k thanx.' And in contrast I'd even argue that in TVD it isn't about atoning AT ALL. It's about who you care about, the people who care about you, and who you're going to be today. It's about people who come to forgive and protect each other, because they can't make themselves not give a shit & because that's the way they want to live their lives. Friendship over justice or vengeance! Love over hate! My emotional truths matter as much as your factual ones! I know I repeat it a lot, but I really feel like it's a truism for the verse: in TVD, where there is love there's grace. (Elena would SO not get Buffy, omg. She'd be like, "GTFO OF MY TOWN WITH YOUR HATERATING." And then she'd hit my poor beloved Xander over the head with a block of wood and Caroline would eat him. ALAS.)
nothing is as... metaphorical in TVD as it is in the Jossverse. The vampires in TVD feel much more grounded in reality as opposed to being creatures of literary fantasy.
I absolutely love how much the vampires make sense in TVD - like, their instincts and their abilities. Humans ARE animals already. And so vampires are just exactly who they were, but with heightened senses, emotions, and new instincts. And I feel like making them like an evolved subspecies of human... thing. Making them real and not metaphoric allows me to deal with them as the species they are -- a shark being a shark, as Daisy in Being Human would say. I don't expect human mores and conduct out of them, because they're a different breed of animal. I love how they take us through Caroline's change, so we can see the new vampire mindset and instincts.