butterfly: (Nine with Rose)
[personal profile] butterfly

Shorter than previously, because I'm getting back into the swing of things.

"Aliens of London"/"World War Three"

written by Russell T Davies
directed by Keith Boak
 

General Thoughts

"Aliens of London"/"World War Three" takes us back to Rose's home, where she and the Doctor must face the combination of his world (aliens and danger) with hers (domestics and personal responsibility). Rose, as we see at the end of the episode, would be happy to combine the two -- the Doctor isn't ready for that yet. This is our baseline check -- the Doctor's default is 'no domestics' and 'no family', something that we will explore more in later episodes.

 

Bechdel Test

Rose and Jackie talk, several times in both episodes, sometimes about the Doctor, primarily about their own relationship and issues.

Rose also speaks with Harriet Jones, though the Doctor is brought into the conversation early on, being an alien expert.

"Aliens of London"/"World War Three" passes the Bechdel test.

 

ClothesWatch

Rose Tyler

Rose starts out in her tEotW outfit but after she's been home with her mother, she changes to a pink and blue shirt (with jeans and trainers). Then, when she leaves, she changes into a red and white jacket -- no blue to be found. She's the one making the choice.

The Doctor

Leather jacket. Blue jumper. Do you think that his clothes (or the TARDIS) have special properties or that he has tons of copies of things? I've seen it done both ways in fanfic.

*feels a sudden and deep longing for ties and button-down shirts*

*looks around awkwardly*

He just... he wears more interesting clothes in the future! That's all.

*looks guilty; hides pictures of the tenth Doctor*

Other Clothing Notes

Jackie wears pink throughout the episode, while Mickey wears a deep red shirt. Until the ending scene, where they both change into blue -- just in time for Rose to leave them behind, with no choice in the matter. I'm thinking that's not a coincidence.

Harriet Jones wears a very pale pink shirt/jacket. It's nice.

Themes and Arcs

The Doctor as Myth (aka 'The Lonely God')

"Is it always this dangerous?" Rose asks in the previouslys. When the Doctor tells her that it is, she smiles.

That's the central question of the episode and of the Doctor. The mothers always worry 'Is my daughter safe?' (note: my mother worries about this, too, I'd like to mention, and I don't even get to travel with the Doctor as compensation).

The thing is that it isn't even the slightest bit safe. And Rose already knows that -- at the top of the episode, she's already nearly died three times while with the Doctor (four, if you count the two Gelth attacks separately). But she knew that going in. She choose that. "I wanted to come," she says in "The Unquiet Dead". And she chooses to stay. It's dangerous, yeah. But that's part of the fun.

This is the part of the Doctor that scares or awes other people and Rose completely embraces it, the way she (eventually) embraces everything else about him. Instead of allowing him to overwhelm her, she either punctures his ego trips and keeps him on the ground with her or she rises to meet him. Every single time, at each point where the choice is available, she chooses him (at the end of the world, who do you go home to?).

Words and Phases of Note

'Bad Wolf' is spray-painted on the side of the TARDIS by a kid in the first part. In the second, the Doctor makes him clean it off. We meet UNIT for the first time in the new series (and find that the Doctor has been avoiding them -- not sure he wants to spend so much time around soldiers after being forced to be one, maybe).

 

Reoccurring Characters

Rose Tyler

Rose comes home and everything has changed. This is what Rose gets early on that the later companions don't -- they come home to find out that they have changed while the world remained the same, but Rose's entire world shifted while she was gone. Her mother is never going to take her for granted again. Her boyfriend was accused of murdering her. The entire street was covered with her picture.

The Doctor

The Doctor gets to do all sorts of things in this episode. We see him interact with UNIT for the first time -- he takes complete control at the first sign of trouble. He's still reflexively a soldier (or even a general)... but he despises it when people shoot without figuring out what's going on. And he doesn't want to be in charge -- he's relieved when Harriet takes over near the end of the episode. He doesn't want to be the man at the top... but everyone else is dead. He may have hated or been disgusted by most of them, but they were the framework that he rebelled against. He's a rudderless man right now, but... he's still fighting to save the Earth and he's found someone that seems to make life worth living again. He's starting to build a new structure and (to completely steal a phrase from the new Dexter episode) he's making Rose the scaffolding while he builds.

Mickey Smith

He's been forced to grow up while Rose has been gone. Twelve months and he's been a suspected murderer, unable to clear his own name because he knew that no one would believe him. All he could do was wait and watch and search. And what he's found out hasn't lightened his heart -- the Doctor is dangerous, so incredibly dangerous. Mickey also has to choose between Rose and the world in this episode and, unlike the Doctor, he can make the choice on his own.

Jackie Tyler

Oh, Jackie. She gets put through the mill in this episode. Our first glimpse of her -- bare face, stunned beyond even relief to see her daughter again -- tells us so much about what has happened. Even before we see the 'missing' poster, it's obvious from Jackie's reaction that Rose has been gone for longer than a night. Jackie tries to take control of the situation several times, but is thwarted each time -- Rose refuses to tell her what happened, calling the hotline gets Rose taken away as well as the Doctor, she can't do anything to help save her daughter or the world, and she can't stop Rose from leaving. She is powerless to keep her daughter safe and all she can do is ask the Doctor to try to do that for her.

We also see her intense worry and fear over where Rose went and what may have happened to her and her pride that Rose helped to save the world.

Harriet Jones

One of the things that I like so much about Russell's characters is that they have traits and those traits can lead to either positive or negative events, depending on the situation (someone else mentioned Rose's impulsiveness -- Rose just is impulsive and sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes it's a bad thing). Here, Harriet's personality and her choices happen to align with the Doctor's own -- later, though both she and the Doctor are still being completely themselves, they end up on opposite sides because the situation is different. In both situations, Harriet and the Doctor are acting the way they'd previously been set up to act.

 

Continuing Relationships

Doctor/Rose

He takes her home to see her mother. For all his protests about 'domestics' later on, this point should definitely be made: she wanted to see her mother, so he took her home to do just that.

There are a couple of very important lines in this episode.

a) "He's not my boyfriend. He's better than that. He's much more important than that."

Rather than the denial that they have shared before (with Jabe and in saying that they don't have a sexual relationship, which, of course, they currently don't), she's affirming her connection with the Doctor here. She's only known him 'a few days' but he's better and more important than a boyfriend to her. She also trusts that he wouldn't just leave her behind.

b) "I could save the world but lose you."

This is the Doctor saying something similar about Rose -- there's the world and there's Rose and, right now, he can't pick between them. He literally cannot make the choice to do something that might kill Rose. He's frozen and it takes Rose and Harriet prompting him to make him act.

Rose/Mickey

Mickey has spent a year under suspicion of Rose's murder -- no chance to move on, because he's forced to think about Rose and worry about her. For her part, Rose doesn't mind that he's been waiting for her. They are still very much in a relationship here -- they nearly kiss in the TARDIS and do kiss when Rose says goodbye at the end of the episode.

Rose/Jackie

While Rose says "I can't do that to her again," she also, very obviously, can't choose to give up her life with the Doctor. Rose would give anything to keep her mother from worrying... but she won't stop traveling. And note the dissonance in what she says, "And then I'll come back," but then a moment later, "If you saw it out there, you'd never stay home." (and, of course, the Doctor picks up on the 'Rose will go home to her mother eventually' part while Jackie picks up on the 'Rose wants to travel forever' part).

Doctor/Mickey

Mickey has studied up on the Doctor for the last year and has seen how much death and destruction normally surround him. The Doctor takes every opportunity to twit Mickey (note that, when he's alone in the car with Rose, he has no problem saying 'Mickey') and comes across as such a petty, jealous bastard. But then Mickey impresses him. At the end of the episode, the Doctor invites Mickey along, both because of that and because, I suspect, he wants Rose to be happy. The Doctor is willing to do all manner of things that will make himself miserable if he thinks that it'll make Rose safe or happy (preferably both). Oh, Doctor.

Mickey asks the Doctor the ten-thousand dollar question -- if it's so dangerous out there, in the Doctor's life, why take Rose with? How can he say that he cares so much about her and then put her in danger?

The Doctor doesn't get the chance to answer, but there are several key factors.

a) For the Doctor, keeping Rose out of danger is completely impossible -- she gets all investigative and finds the trouble. All on her own.

b) This is what the Doctor's life is. He can't choose to walk away from it. In order to be with Rose, she has to be in his life because the universe won't let him choose to be in hers instead.

c) Rose thrives on the danger. Like the Doctor, she enjoys it. Even the horrible and awful parts (Donna and Martha do not have a patent on the horrible and awful parts -- I have to say, that's one of the most annoying bits of incorrect fanon floating around out there, along with the claim that Rose 'never stood up to the Doctor' or was 'in awe of him' -- so far, Rose has nearly died four times in fairly icky ways, been spattered with bits of Cassandra, been chloroformed, and watched the Earth be blown to bits... oh, and she just had a missile land on the room she was in during this episode) are better than her old life. She'd rather be in mortal peril than stay at home.

Doctor/Jackie

Jackie gives the Doctor a well-deserved smack, but comes around on him in the end after he saves the world (and Rose doesn't die). She's willing to give him a chance... but he isn't ready to give her one.

Mickey/Jackie

She's spent the last year accusing him of murder, but once the plot of the episode starts up, they have the chance to bond. He saves her life and she trusts his judgment. And they're both left behind, at the end. They only have each other, if they want to talk about where Rose really is.

 

General Squee

Billie Piper

She sells so much in this episode. Very upset with her mother, uncertain with the Doctor and Mickey, but loving the life.

Special Effects

I love the way the Slitheen move -- particularly in this one shot where it's the three of them and they really do look like a pack of hunting animals of some alien nature.

All the Rest

There are some iffy moments in the first part, but once the Doctor, Rose, and Harriet are in the Cabinet Room together, everything is pretty much golden.

We have our Tosh sighting! I have to say, it's a big relief to know that she isn't a medical Doctor. I like to think that Owen could have told the difference between a live pig and a dead one. I wonder if this is her first field op! She seems nervous and everyone starts somewhere. Or maybe she's afraid of screwing up and having Owen lose his job, if she's already crushing on him. I wonder if she ever knew that the random doctor hanging about was The Doctor. She didn't mention, later. Though I believe that Jack probably failed to fill his team in on certain vital elements of the original purpose of Torchwood.

"Aliens of London"/"World War Three" showed us the life that Rose doesn't want to return to -- "Dalek" is going to show us the ghosts in the Doctor's closet.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-09-14 01:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spiletta42.livejournal.com
Tosh! Jack definitely hasn't told Tosh and the rest of the Torchwood team anything about the Doctor, especially history-of-Torchwood related bits. He's in the situation of waiting for the version of the Doctor who knows him to show up, and since this is pre-meeting-Jack Doctor, and Jack doesn't show up, we must conclude that Jack somehow knows this Doctor hasn't met him yet, probably in part based on his knowledge of Rose's timeline, and also the fact that he was involved in the later Slitheen dealing so knows this one happened without him, and time travel is giving me a headache so I'll stop now.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-09-14 01:58 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I bet he found out about Rose going 'missing', too, and knew that she'd started traveling with the Doctor.

Part 1 of 2 (damn lj and their short comments)

Date: 2008-09-14 01:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arabian.livejournal.com
This is the part of the Doctor that scares or awes other people and Rose completely embraces it, the way she (eventually) embraces everything else about him. Instead of allowing him to overwhelm her, she either punctures his ego trips and keeps him on the ground with her or she rises to meet him.

Oh, I love this because it's so true. How anyone can deny that Russell was totally setting it up that Rose IS indeed the love of his life, not just because they're pretty together and get all giggly and stuff like that, but because *instinctively* Rose gets him, his life and loves and embraces it and THEN him. They are PERFECT for one another. He gives her the stars; she gives him humanity. It's a beautiful thing.

And he doesn't want to be in charge -- he's relieved when Harriet takes over near the end of the episode.

Yup, this was a very, very big point I made in my own rewatch-review (link here) ...

[There's] his inner turmoil in this one ... in his role as a Time Lord, as he tells Jackie over the speakerphone: This is his life, it's not all fun and adventure, it's making the difficult choices because no one else can or will. The quiet anguish in his voice as he said this was yet another echo of the effect the Time War had on him. Here he was once again -- on an admittedly smaller scale -- forced to potentially give up something he cares about for the greater good. And then comes the flip: The utter joy that fills his grin when someone else steps up and decides that she can and will make that decision. And she does it, leaving the Doctor free to do what he must do with the blessing of Rose, but more importantly, being able to relinquish the decision-maker role in this instance because Harriet Jones was right. SHE was the only one in that room who truly had the authority to make that call.

This shows how true it is that the Doctor, at least a part of him, does simply want to relinquish that role and just be with the woman he loves, be able to make the choice to choose the one over the many. We saw the seeds of what does play out in "Journey's End" this early on -- not necessarily pertaining to Rose specifically here, although again, she is the key here that is causing the anguish at his decision (Harriet doesn't even come into the equation for him, he's focused all on Rose). He doesn't have that option here, but we already see that a part of him wishes for it and in "Journey's End," with his Time Lord/Human hybrid self, he's finally able to choose that one.

Mickey also has to choose between Rose and the world in this episode and, unlike the Doctor, he can make the choice on his own.

Ooh! Good point. I had just noted: "Jackie tells him that she could stop him, and Mickey looks up at her and says softly, "do it." Such a simple moment, but so powerful, because he cares about Rose too, but they both realize in the moment, the needs of the many must outweigh the one, even a loved one." But you're totally right. Mickey makes the choice, as hard as it is, the Doctor can't. Ooh!!!

One of the things that I like so much about Russell's characters is that they have traits and those traits can lead to either positive or negative events, depending on the situation. Here, Harriet's personality and her choices happen to align with the Doctor's own -- later, though both she and the Doctor are still being completely themselves, they end up on opposite sides because the situation is different. In both situations, Harriet and the Doctor are acting the way they'd previously been set up to act.

Yes, yes, yes!!!! And branching a bit off-topic, but this is partly what I'm getting at when I refer to my Martha commentary about the problem being more Freema's bland acting (sorry, Freema!) as opposed to the character's creation and arc. Because you CAN see the seeds of everything pretty much that Martha does (especially in the RTD-penned episodes) in her first few appearances.
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Oh, I love this because it's so true. How anyone can deny that Russell was totally setting it up that Rose IS indeed the love of his life, not just because they're pretty together and get all giggly and stuff like that, but because *instinctively* Rose gets him, his life and loves and embraces it and THEN him. They are PERFECT for one another. He gives her the stars; she gives him humanity. It's a beautiful thing.

It does confuse me when people don't see it. The text makes it so obvious. She's pretty much made for his life. She understands him and finds joy in the same things that she does, while being willing and able to give him more than any other companion has (with him accepting it).

This shows how true it is that the Doctor, at least a part of him, does simply want to relinquish that role and just be with the woman he loves, be able to make the choice to choose the one over the many. We saw the seeds of what does play out in "Journey's End" this early on -- not necessarily pertaining to Rose specifically here, although again, she is the key here that is causing the anguish at his decision (Harriet doesn't even come into the equation for him, he's focused all on Rose). He doesn't have that option here, but we already see that a part of him wishes for it and in "Journey's End," with his Time Lord/Human hybrid self, he's finally able to choose that one.

Oh, yeah, definitely. Which is why I really do think that the Doctor and Rose are going to be very happy over in Pete's World -- he's shown this longing to just... stop running several times. I mean, in "Last of the Time Lords" he actually wishes for someone to take care of! I think of the lyrics of "Love Don't Roam" and my heart aches.

I still feel bad for the on-going Doctor, because he can't stop running. But he never could. He was never going to be able to make that choice. And the other Doctor can. He can pick Rose. I expect that he's utterly thrilled.

Mickey makes the choice, as hard as it is, the Doctor can't. Ooh!!!

Just as the Doctor is growing more towards Rose and more dependent on her, Mickey is growing away from her.

this is partly what I'm getting at when I refer to my Martha commentary about the problem being more Freema's bland acting (sorry, Freema!) as opposed to the character's creation and arc. Because you CAN see the seeds of everything pretty much that Martha does (especially in the RTD-penned episodes) in her first few appearances.

Sadly, I must agree. Which I find sad because RTD normally is so good at having great actors. And Freema is... pedestrian -- she goes for the obvious and shallow line readings more often than not. She isn't bad, but she isn't fantastic, so she doesn't quite measure up to the other actors. She falls flat.
From: [identity profile] arabian.livejournal.com
It does confuse me when people don't see it. The text makes it so obvious. She's pretty much made for his life. She understands him and finds joy in the same things that she does, while being willing and able to give him more than any other companion has (with him accepting it).

Yes, I really can't see it as anything other than refusing to see it because it's SO there. It's not even subtext, it's in your face (albeit without the kissing and shagging, but everything else ...).

"He doesn't have that option here, but we already see that a part of him wishes for it and in "Journey's End," with his Time Lord/Human hybrid self, he's finally able to choose that one."

Oh, yeah, definitely. Which is why I really do think that the Doctor and Rose are going to be very happy over in Pete's World -- he's shown this longing to just... stop running several times. I mean, in "Last of the Time Lords" he actually wishes for someone to take care of!


Yes, I've found that I just can NOT read post-JE fics that have Rose unable to accept him because I find that completely unbelievable. It's the Doctor. Period. Yeah, she'll have to adjust, but she will ... because it's the Doctor and she loves him, and he loves her. End of story.

I think of the lyrics of "Love Don't Roam" and my heart aches.

Oh, "Love Don't Roam" breaks my heart. I love it so, but it makes me sigh and make a sad face everytime I hear it. See again first point: Hello, that is CANON! It's music/lyrics written for THE show (heck, part of it even played on the show). It was on the OFFICIAL soundtrack. It was about the Doctor's feeling for ROSE! He. loves. her.

"the problem being more Freema's bland acting as opposed to the character's creation and arc. Because you CAN see the seeds of everything pretty much that Martha does (especially in the RTD-penned episodes) in her first few appearances."

Sadly, I must agree. Which I find sad because RTD normally is so good at having great actors. And Freema is... pedestrian -- she goes for the obvious and shallow line readings more often than not. She isn't bad, but she isn't fantastic, so she doesn't quite measure up to the other actors. She falls flat.


Thank you. I feel sometimes that I'm one of the few that feels this way. And also, thank you, because every time you agree with my thoughts on something Who-related, I'm more convinced that I'll see VotD/Astrid/the Doctor as you do.
From: [identity profile] blackcat-1.livejournal.com
We saw the seeds of what does play out in "Journey's End" this early on -- not necessarily pertaining to Rose specifically here, although again, she is the key here that is causing the anguish at his decision (Harriet doesn't even come into the equation for him, he's focused all on Rose). He doesn't have that option here, but we already see that a part of him wishes for it and in "Journey's End," with his Time Lord/Human hybrid self, he's finally able to choose that one.

YES! And of course, we see his desire for a human life, without all the responsiblities he must carry, repeatedly thereafter;
in Father's Day, School Reunion, (even, dare I say it) GitF, Doomsday, Gridlock, DiM/EoftD and of course, HN/FoB. The seeds were sewn way back in S1 and it's lovely, when watching these eps retrospectively, how the Doctor/Rose love story grew over a 4-series arc and how the concept of a second version of the same Doctor could bring about a happy (to a certain extent) resolution.

Part 2 of 2 (damn lj and their short comments)

Date: 2008-09-14 01:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arabian.livejournal.com
The Doctor takes every opportunity to twit Mickey (note that, when he's alone in the car with Rose, he has no problem saying 'Mickey') and comes across as such a petty, jealous bastard

I know!!! One of the things I REALLY wish that they had carried over from Nine, even a little bit, with Ten was the Doctor's jealousy. I don't think I would have wanted it had we not had Rose jealous so often (snort, unless Moffat was writing her wholly out-of-character), but we did, so it would have been nice to see even a smidgen of that in return. I actually loved the Doctor's jealousy and how it manifested itself. I mean, it's not like we didn't see signs that Rose was jealous in S1 (mostly with Lynda, but that was the latter part of the series). I know, I know, Ten is so arrogant about what a handsome devil he is, why would he be jealous of anyone else? Still, it would have been good for some laughs.

Donna and Martha do not have a patent on the horrible and awful parts -- I have to say, that's one of the most annoying bits of incorrect fanon floating around out there, along with the claim that Rose 'never stood up to the Doctor' or was 'in awe of him' -- so far, Rose has nearly died four times in fairly icky ways.

YES!!!!! This was one of the reasons that I walked out of that Who panel at Dragon*Con (by the way, I did contact them about setting up a new Who panel for actual fans of RTD's work (and Rose, Rose/Doctor) ... we'll see ...). They were babbling on about how Donna was the only one who made decisions, did anything other than fawn over the Doctor. Ugh!!!

Skimming over the Tosh part cuz I vaguely know that and don't want to know anymore, but I am glad we get an explanation. I LOVED her in AoL and was thrilled to find out we were going to see her again in Torchwood. Kinda funny: Third episode we got Eve Myles playing Gwyneth (Gwen's ancestor), fourth episode we get Tosh!

Anyhoo, great overall review. As always, a blast to read and I love how we see things so alike (for the most part) because I'm really counting on your take of "The Voyage of the Damned" to get me to sit down and actually watch it one of these days. LOL!
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I know!!! One of the things I REALLY wish that they had carried over from Nine, even a little bit, with Ten was the Doctor's jealousy. I don't think I would have wanted it had we not had Rose jealous so often (snort, unless Moffat was writing her wholly out-of-character), but we did, so it would have been nice to see even a smidgen of that in return.

You didn't see him as doing that during SR and in the beginning of RotC? RotC seems like the biggest 'my Rose, hah!' ever, even more so than dancing with Rose in front of Jack at the end of TDDances.

YES!!!!! This was one of the reasons that I walked out of that Who panel at Dragon*Con (by the way, I did contact them about setting up a new Who panel for actual fans of RTD's work (and Rose, Rose/Doctor) ... we'll see ...). They were babbling on about how Donna was the only one who made decisions, did anything other than fawn over the Doctor. Ugh!!!

I am vaguely amused by the fact that the same people were saying the same thing during Martha's series. But, yes, it's annoying that they attempt to rewrite history and say that Rose never stood up to the Doctor or that she was in awe of him. She teased the hell out of him.

Anyhoo, great overall review. As always, a blast to read and I love how we see things so alike (for the most part) because I'm really counting on your take of "The Voyage of the Damned" to get me to sit down and actually watch it one of these days. LOL!

Aw, I really adore VotD. Kylie is so adorable and tiny in it. I want to cuddle her. And you like Gwen (and Rose, of course), so I think your chances of liking her are pretty good.
From: [identity profile] arabian.livejournal.com
You didn't see him as doing that during SR and in the beginning of RotC? RotC seems like the biggest 'my Rose, hah!' ever, even more so than dancing with Rose in front of Jack at the end of TDDances.

Hmm, on reflection, yeah, I can see it in the beginning of RotC, but not SR. Of course, I've only watched them twice, and as I say in my rewatch-reviews, the first time I watched, it was casual, the second time it was filled with OMGSQUEE!I'm loving this!!!! so I didn't catch anything beyond the pretty! I'll probably catch it the third go-round with the rewatch-reviews.

I am vaguely amused by the fact that the same people were saying the same thing during Martha's series. But, yes, it's annoying that they attempt to rewrite history and say that Rose never stood up to the Doctor or that she was in awe of him. She teased the hell out of him.

Yes. It WAS more with Nine, but she did it with Ten too. She was NOT in awe of him, and certainly didn't just fawn over him. They were partners; and it was awesome!!!!

Aw, I really adore VotD. Kylie is so adorable and tiny in it. I want to cuddle her. And you like Gwen (and Rose, of course), so I think your chances of liking her are pretty good.

I'm thinking it more and more likely with each opinion (no matter how out of the majority) we agree on.

ETA: Sorry for the edits (I so need to learn to re-read my posts BEFORE I hit post).

(no subject)

Date: 2008-09-14 05:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com
and, of course, the Doctor picks up on the 'Rose will go home to her mother eventually' part while Jackie picks up on the 'Rose wants to travel forever' part

I think that's one of the more fascinating aspect to the relationship triangle between them. The Doctor forever thinks Rose will go back to Jackie and Jackie thinks Rose will forever go with the Doctor. And Rose spends all of S1 trying to decide. But even in S2 after Rose pulls the Bad Wolf thing, he still thinks Rose will go with Jackie. (Or maybe it's more of a she should go with Jackie.)

In the end she got both and they both got her, which is a very happy ending for the three of them. (Even though I have the feeling the Doctor and Rose will be racing off on adventures - I have the feeling they'll all be in each other's lives much more.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-09-15 05:52 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I think that's one of the more fascinating aspect to the relationship triangle between them. The Doctor forever thinks Rose will go back to Jackie and Jackie thinks Rose will forever go with the Doctor. And Rose spends all of S1 trying to decide. But even in S2 after Rose pulls the Bad Wolf thing, he still thinks Rose will go with Jackie. (Or maybe it's more of a she should go with Jackie.)

Yep. Daft man. He can't quit believe that she would pick him over her mother (until she explicitly does it in "Doomsday" -- after that, I'm pretty sure he knows that Jackie without the Doctor is a no go for Rose and won't make her happy).

In the end she got both and they both got her, which is a very happy ending for the three of them. (Even though I have the feeling the Doctor and Rose will be racing off on adventures - I have the feeling they'll all be in each other's lives much more.)

Right. Even though Rose would and has chosen the Doctor over her mother, she still loves her mum dearly and would like to be around her. For the people in Alt!Verse, it's a happy ending. And I have hopes that the Doctor can be vicariously happy knowing that Rose is happy. We'll find out at Christmas, I suppose.

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