butterfly: (The Doctor -- Five and Ten)
[personal profile] butterfly

a. On the terrible leadership abilities of Captain Jack Harkness and how things are better all-around when he's a follower, not the leader.

b. On Doctor/Rose and the Doctor and the Master, and similarities in their emotional impact on the Doctor.

c. Daleks and the Doctor and all the comparisons between them existing in the series, both explicit and implied.

d. On the subject of the Lonely God and its narrative purpose.

e. A full-out exploration of all of the steps that went into making Doctor/Rose work as a romance (short answer: time, chemistry, writing).

f. Regarding the evolution of Rose's clothing choices and what they mean (this may or may not dip into other characters).

g. On how Gwen and Ianto don't hate each other even the slightest bit and why they don't.

h. On the differences in how the Doctor treats each of his companions and why he does (may bring in Old School comparisons).

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
I WANT TO READ THEM ALL!111

The narrative purpose of Lonely God the most - because I'm not sure how I feel about it and I'd like to read more opinions on it.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 08:41 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I actually find the 'Lonely God' thing very interesting on a thematic level (even if I, personally, view the Doctor more the way that Rose does). It's both an enabling story tool and also something that is used to limit the Doctor and cage him.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 08:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
The limiting part is why I'm starting to get bored with his character. But I'd like to see someone who finds it's interesting talking about it

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 09:02 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I actually find the limitations that it places (how it cripples much of his relationship with Martha for example) more interesting than the ways that it helps him.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
I liked it in season three, and parts of it in season four, but it is getting old for me.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 08:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ice-feather.livejournal.com
"On the terrible leadership abilities of Captain Jack Harkness and how things are better all-around when he's a follower, not the leader."

He really is. This is why I want Ianto to lead Torchwood Three alongside him as an equal. Jack needs someone who will pull him back.

"Regarding the evolution of Rose's clothing choices and what they mean (this may or may not dip into other characters)."

That would be fascinating. As a fashion/costume addict I'd love to read that.

"Gwen and Ianto don't hate each other even the slightest bit"

Seriously. People really need to stop this.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 08:37 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
He really is. This is why I want Ianto to lead Torchwood Three alongside him as an equal. Jack needs someone who will pull him back.

My own personal vote is for the unstoppable co-team of Gwen and Ianto, with Gwen as primary motivator and Ianto as primary organizer.

But, yes, it's especially obvious in comparison to the Doctor, who is a pretty good leader most of the time (despite really not wanting the job) if mostly of the 'cult' variety. Rose develops excellent leadership skills over the course of S2, particularly rallying the troops and delegating (as showcased in "The Satan Pit").

Jack, though... I was so relieved when "Fragments" aired and showed us his background in TW and why the hell he was running TW3. Because he's not a natural leader and isn't very good at it.

That would be fascinating. As a fashion/costume addict I'd love to read that.

I really love what they do with Rose's clothing choices. The other companions are less interesting, but that's probably because their stories don't get to be as wide-ranging as Rose's (Donna mimicking the Doctor in the last episodes of S4 is noteworthy, though, as is the 'soldier' vibe that Jack, Mickey, and Martha all pick up).

Seriously. People really need to stop this.

It really doesn't make any sense at all for people to write them as disliking each other, given the canon.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spiletta42.livejournal.com
Is there a way to make your essays required reading before an individual is issued a license to write fanfic? Oh, right, fanfic doesn't require a license. Darn.

Write some fic! That's what we need. Good fic from someone who understands these things.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 09:04 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I may have to! I did enjoy writing my "Turn Left" fic.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] millylicious.livejournal.com
Really interested in all of them, but especially b, e, f, g and h.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 09:10 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I'm definitely hoping to get around to them all.

I'm planning on rewatching the series and taking notes on things like costuming, whether each episode passes the Bechdel test (do two female characters talk to each other about something other than a man? I already know that "Rose" and "The End of the World" both do, with the Rose and Jackie scenes if nothing else.), and (since I'm taking Storyboarding and Intro to Editing at school right now) how the camera is being used and what the editing emphasizes.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pluckyyounggirl.livejournal.com
I'm looking forward to reading them! Particularly f, because it's something I've thought about a lot myself and never thought anyone else did. :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 09:11 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Rose's clothes say so much! Especially her finale clothes.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 09:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trepkos.livejournal.com
They all sound interesting - but why would Gwen hate Ianto?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-19 01:03 pm (UTC)
coneyislandbaby: (Default)
From: [personal profile] coneyislandbaby
There is a sector of the Torchwood fandom who thinks Gwen and Ianto hate each other out of competition over Jack. Totally ignoring the sweet and funny friendship the characters have on screen.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-21 04:42 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
What [livejournal.com profile] joanne_c said, basically.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 10:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
On Doctor/Rose and the Doctor and the Master, and similarities in their emotional impact on the Doctor.

Please write this one! :)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-21 04:46 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I kept noticing how I would pair up their scenes in vids and then I started thinking about how the whole 'Rose is special' thing totally applies to the way he approaches the Master, too. And about how they really did need to have the Master appear in a series that didn't have Rose, because of the emotional overlap that would occur if they were in the same series.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-21 04:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rusty_halo.livejournal.com
Yes! I keep thinking how cool it would've been to see Rose and the Master interact, but then I can't really see how it would work in canon, because they both fulfill similar functions to the Doctor. They're central to him emotionally, though in very different ways. I honestly don't know what he'd do if he had to choose between them, which one to prioritize. He's so obsessively needy about both.

And usually the Doctor's big emotional arc is connected to the companion, but in S3 it was connected to the Master. (Martha's emotional arc was related to the Doctor, but the Doctor's really wasn't that connected to Martha). It wouldn't have worked as well if Rose had been there the whole time--the fact that the Doctor was so emotionally disconnected from everyone else made his desperate need for the Master even more intense and powerful.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-21 10:38 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
*nods*

I think of the Master and Rose as a bit like matter and anti-matter... if they actually came into contact, the universe might well implode.

It wouldn't have worked as well if Rose had been there the whole time--the fact that the Doctor was so emotionally disconnected from everyone else made his desperate need for the Master even more intense and powerful.

Exactly. They needed Rose to be gone to tell the Master's story because having her there would have distracted the Doctor from the Master and they needed the Master in S3 to show how deeply the Doctor was still capable of feeling about someone without Rose there.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-18 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thunderemerald.livejournal.com
Another vote for the Rose vs. Master essay here! I'd never even thought about that, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-21 10:40 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
To start with, they're the only two people that the Doctor would forgive of genocide. I kinda think of them as... inverses. Matter and anti-matter. And they both bring forth this incredible needy depth of emotion from the Doctor.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-22 02:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thunderemerald.livejournal.com
They do indeed, this is true. Damn, now I have to go back and read that incredible Rose-meets-the-Master fic that I found... if I can find it again!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-22 07:43 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Ooo! Are you thinking of 'Do I Twist, Do I Fold? (http://rosa-acicularis.livejournal.com/5269.html)' because that one was completely made of awesome.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-22 07:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thunderemerald.livejournal.com
YES OMG YES YES YES!!! Thank you for re-finding it for me!! That fic is completely brilliant -- and I'm off to read it again now...

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-19 01:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katzamboni.livejournal.com
I want to read every single one of them, but Rose and the Master, Rose's clothing choices and the Lonely God essay are the most intriguing to me.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-21 10:41 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I'm really looking forward to writing my essay about Rose's clothes. Because a) I really love them and b) they say so much about where her character goes.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-19 03:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sol-se.livejournal.com
a. On the terrible leadership abilities of Captain Jack Harkness and how things are better all-around when he's a follower, not the leader.

I COMPLETELY agree with this. 100%!!! And I think Jack does too. He wants someone to follow, but the only one he trusts enough to follow on blind faith is the Doctor. *nods*

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-19 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sol-se.livejournal.com
g. On how Gwen and Ianto don't hate each other even the slightest bit and why they don't.

100% agreed on this as well. I think it's been pretty much been established by now in canon. Certain segments of fandom, however, are another story. Ianto/Jack/Gwen are one of the few OT3 that could actually work in canon. Except for the fact that that would make Rhys sad, which would be bad. But, Ianto/Jack/Gwen/Rhys would not work. Sadly.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-21 10:43 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Agreed. He got screwed over by the Time Agency and then he met the Doctor and Rose (he'd probably follow Rose, too, if she were in this universe -- she's picked up some leadership skills since the last time he saw her and he trusts her) and they made him into a hero. But a great hero is... not the same as a great leader.

*advocates for Gwen as head of TW3*

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-19 04:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarah-actually.livejournal.com
I will read all of them but I vote D and E first. Just because.

And I never really thought about your point in A, but you're totally, totally right.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-21 10:44 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
The Lonely God theme is something that a lot of people seem tired with, but I find it endlessly fascinating. Because... he still doesn't want to be either lonely or a god, but he doesn't see any other choices. The universe needs someone to save it, no matter how much he might wish otherwise.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-07-27 05:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shield-wolf.livejournal.com
I too find the Lonely God theme fascinating, for much the same reasons you indicate here. It's especially obvious to me from "Journey's End" that the sense of dichotomy between the man and the god and the tension it implies -- a tension that finally tears him in two, metaphorically speaking, leaving one of each in a sense -- was largely the point of his character arc over the course of the past four seasons (much as I may wish otherwise, since the opportunity for positive growth and change was there but remains largely unfulfilled in the Doctor with which we have been left).

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