Deep Down - Angel's son

[butterfly]

"He's Angel's son."

That's Fred's reasoning for helping Connor in the beginning. It was all about Angel.

It was never about Connor. And it was never about Wesley (to flash back to S3). She instantly chooses Angel's side over Connor's and over Wesley's. And the cause was sufficient, and yet. Angel was the handsome man who saved her from the monsters. Anyone who tries to hurt her hero is automatically in the wrong.

"Go on, Fred. Hurt me some more. You get used to it."

And her twist into violence is so heartbreaking for Connor. Because, though he was lying to them, he had embraced their life and their caring. And to find out that it was never real must have only confirmed everything he felt about love. He was doing his best to cling to the good and lay waste to the evil. But the good lies and hurts (Fred lied for a quite a while, to get close enough and get his guard down enough so that she could zap him), while the evil is, at least, more upfront about it all.

"What does that mean? Really? Being good, doing the right thing— by whose judgment? Good, evil… they’re just words, Connor. Concepts of morality they forced around your neck to yank you wherever they please. You’re with me now. You don’t have to live by their rules."

Cordy is the only person who treats him as his own entity and not as "Angel's son". Of course, she's manipulating him and using him, but it was because she needed him, personally.

Darla's... memory and feelings appear to him and she says that she has a message.

"It has to be your choice. You can stop this."

It's a trick of a choice, but it is a choice. Liam chose to 'see the world'. William chose something effulgent. Cordy chose to be a higher power. And Connor chose belonging over doing what was right. Connor chose the beautiful lie.

They all got what they wanted, if not in the form they thought it would come in.

Cordy did become a higher power - Jasmine. Angel has seen the world, and himself, and it has caused him more agony than he could have ever imagined. Spike burned up letting the light come, but the fire didn't consume him (otherwise, how could the flames be eternal - Lilah reminded us of that).

And Connor, who was defined by being Angel's son, is now defined by not being Angel's son. The beautiful lie.

To twist back to the beginning: damn, Fred is unperceptive. She accuses both Connor and Wesley of not caring, and they're the ones who care the most about the situation, the ones most defined by Angel. She really doesn't understand them at all.

Comments

[bcassie.livejournal.com]

That really is Wesley's downfall, he cares too much especially when it comes to Angel and 'the mission'. Watching Forgiving again, I was struck by just how much of a heartless bitch Fred is. Poor Wes, already feeling despair over losing Connor and then facing Angel's wrath, started to pick up a bit when Fred visited - a small smile tugging at the corners of his mouth - only to have Fred tell him, ' we know why you did it, you were trying to protect Angel and Connor, but don't come back to the hotel... ever'.

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Her thinking can be so very black and white. And it does make sense, considering what happened to her. But it doesn't make her choices the best ones, certainly. And it's never a good thing to snuff out someone's last shred of hope, as she did with Wesley. Hopeless people are dangerous ones.

She assumes that if you ever act against someone's wishes, then you don't love them, when really it's much more complicated. But she has a very simplistic view of love, as shown by her relationship with Gunn and her shock that Wes and Lilah had anything but sex and hate.

[ros-fod.livejournal.com]

To twist back to the beginning: damn, Fred is unperceptive. She accuses both Connor and Wesley of not caring, and they're the ones who care the most about the situation, the ones most defined by Angel. She really doesn't understand them at all.

I can't deny this, as much as I *want* to.

I like that her irrational, destructive side came out again Deep Down, though. And I think that it's not even Angel that she cares most about. Fred is about personal survival - it's something she's learned, had to learn. She's distraught that Connor's harmed Angel, but Angel is obviously safe now, Wes has him. Her real beef?

"How long before *we* deserved it?"

Fred Defense

[selenak.livejournal.com]

She instantly chooses Angel's side over Connor's and over Wesley's.

Not quite, as far as Wesley is concerned. I'm always surprised that all people remember about Fred's reaction to what happened with Wesley in season 3 is the hospital scene, blocking out everything else. Let's not forget: it was Fred who desperately tried to find out the truth and in fact did find Wesley's diaries in the waste. It was Fred who in every single remaining episode of season 3 at least once brought up Wesley to the rest of the gang and suggested asking him to come back. Most pointedly, she asked Cordy as the person closest to Wesley and Angel to intercede, only to hear in reply "the only feelings I care about are Angel's". Of all the A.I. crew, Fred was the only one who acted as friend where Wes was concerned (including getting mad at him in the hospital scene), so I just don't get it why she gets the most ire.

Now, Connor, that's different. Here it was about Connor being Angel' son (and Fred drawing the completely wrong conclusions about it), and choosing Angel's side only.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Can I have your brain for a while? I just wanna sit next to it and ask it things while I rewatch the last couple of seasons.

Re: Fred Defense

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

This is what comes of trusting outside sources (everyone should always watch everything themselves). I haven't actually seen most of S3, so was relying on recaps and reviews. Interesting how they seemed to avoid the times when Fred was trying.

That makes it seem even odder to me. Why try outside of Wes' sight, only to be so cold when you're next to him?

Re: Fred Defense

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Reviews ignoring when Fred was trying to help Wesley: I guess that has to do with the anti-Fred bias in season 3. She was blamed for the Wes/Gunn falling out which apart from the fact she existed really wasn't her fault. So, for the record, Fred's attempts to help that I remember best:
- trying to prove he wasn't in league with Holtz and trying to find out what happened, in "Forgiven"
- asking Cordy as soon as she gets her alone in "The Price" to intercede for Wesley with Angel which leads to the following exchange:
F:...and imagine how Wesley must feel right now.
C: The only feelings I care about are Angel's.

- using each time Angel asks for some research to get an "maybe we should ask W..." (resulting in a glare from the Fanged One) in the remaining eps.

As to why Fred was cold to Wesley when she went visiting him in the hospital - I'd say she was angry rather than cold. And it was because, well, she had reason to be angry (for starters, Wesley should have told her and Gunn about the prophecy), but she could hardly vent those feelings with the rest of the A.I. crew whom she was trying to persuade to take Wesley back.
(Incidentally, Fred was reacting as I had expected Cordy to react - with anger and support at the same time.)

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Which Wesley points out was a false worry - Connor doesn't kill humans (at that point in time). And Fred should know that (she's only been with him all summer, after all), but she's normalized Angel so much - she just sees him as Angel, not as a demon, and she can't see the other point of view.

What always pisses me off about Fred there (and I like that she can do that - I do very much like Fred) is that she fakes still being his protector/mother-figure/friend before zapping him. That's the part that gnaws at Connor, we learn - the pretending.

Re: Fred Defense

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Thank you very much.

And wow, I want to smack Cordy/Jasmine.

using each time Angel asks for some research to get an "maybe we should ask W..."

Does she? It's not just Deep Down, then? Hmm. I very much take back what I said above, then - I just saw the bit in the hospital in the previously and it looks so cold by itself, but in context... it makes so much sense. She told him to stay away, but meanwhile kept seeing if she'd be able to tell him he could come back. Is that the gist of it?

*cuddles Fred*

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

Well, I plan on continuing to share my thoughts, so you can sit next to it in a virtual way.

*insert random whine about wanting to meet people on my flist*

And thanks.

Re: Fred Defense

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's the gist of it. Mind you, given that the last time Fred saw Angel and Wesley together in a room, the former was trying to kill the later, it was probably common (survival) sense as well as anything else to try and get an all-clear signal from Angel first before asking Wes himself back.

And yes, Cordy/Jasmine was definitely smackworthy. That was when I lost my emotional connection to Cordy. I am grateful for the Jasmine retcon because it excuses Cordy somewhat from what was really a terrible failure of friendship, especially given how close she and Wesley used to be. Plus as Fred points out to her in The Price, Cordy was the only one of them whom Angel would have really listened to in regards to Wesley.

Incidentally, the Jasmine retcon brings up the interesting question as to why Jasmine didn't want Wes back. I mean, it's clear why she wanted Cordy fixated on Angel only - so that the subsequent C/C would hit Angel all the harder - but maybe she also thought Wes would have had a chance of figuring it all out in time if he had been asked back to the fold then.

Re: Fred Defense

[butterfly.livejournal.com]

And I'd totally forgotten that Fred (and Gunn, too, yes?) were there at the hospital when Angel did his smothering thing. If I could watch the episode instead of just reading transcripts, I'd have remembered that. Gah. This is so frustrating. S3 of Angel needs to come out on dvd, like, yesterday.

Well, she wouldn't want another 'family' member around if she could avoid it, I don't think. Plus, at that point, I think, Jasmine wasn't all that powerful in her - I think she could provide the drive - Care About Angel - but not the specifics.

Re: Fred Defense

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

That was the thing for me - she knew exactly why he did what he did, and then in the hospital, when he most needed someone to understand, she went... well, she went.