butterfly | Brief reactions to Friday TV: BSG, Sarah Connor, Dollhouse

I don't HATE her, I pity her. She's a character I've always loved and felt like got the rawest deal on the show. I mean, she was just a normal person and she had her whole life stripped away from her, and someone take over what should have been her life, basically. I think she's gone off the deep end and I feel so bad for her.

I'm not sure that I really believe that she went off the deep end. Because... I think that this might have been the best possible choice that she could have made, horrible as it was. If she'd just gone off by herself, I don't know if the rebel cylons would have let her go. They seemed... persistent. She knows that the only person on that ship who gives a damn about her at all is Chief and she did her best to make things as right with him that she could.

I don't think she had any good choices. I think that she could have chosen worse choices -- she could have killed Athena. She could have killed Helo instead of frakking him.

I do think that I may be the only person feeling this way.

No, I agree. She could have made worse decisions, but I don't think that makes the ones she made right. And this is coming from someone who's consistently loved Boomer and wanted a happy ending for her. I think she just feels betrayed. She got the bummest deal for sure.

And tho I think your reasoning for why she took Hera could be true, I definitely think there was more to it than that - I think she wants to BE Athena. To have the life that Athena has, and that includes the daughter. And tho she may be on her way to turn Hera over to Cavil, I think there's more to it than that and she'll be conflicted and maybe get that last minute redemption. At least I'm hoping because she's not a bad person - she's just someone whose back has been against the wall for a very long time.

Oh, I definitely don't think her decisions qualify as 'right', but I also don't think that there's any decision that she could make that would. So. 'Sucks to be Boomer' is how this tune goes, I think. It's been playing since the first season.

I also agree that she feels intense envy toward Athena (if she didn't, she would have been... nicer about knocking her out). Athena was aware of the genocide and was part of the cylons until she fell in love... but she's been able to have happiness and love. Meanwhile, Boomer is doing the 'if I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all' dance.

BSG -- I'm having many emotions towards Boomer right now. Primarily disappointment. But. Well, we'll see. She hurt Athena, and that's not cool, and frakking Helo was completely unnecessary. Well, unless. Um. Yeah.

T:SCC -- Loved it. Definitely one to rewatch, although I'm pretty proud of myself for what I caught on the first time through.

Dollhouse -- YES! This show is going to be exactly what I wanted. I also loved Echo's imprint for the mission -- I saw a bit of Faith in the attitude and casual buttkicking, which made it very entertaining on the surface-level, and that's a good thing. That moment in the end made me shout out loud.

(sorry about the sock)

She hurt Athena, and that's not cool, and frakking Helo was completely unnecessary. Well, unless. Um. Yeah.

Hurt Athena but didn't kill her. I do think that she clearly had... issues with Athena, but she had every opportunity in the world to kill her and didn't.

Also, it seemed clear to me that she didn't want to have sex with Helo, but couldn't see any way of getting out of it without alerting his suspicions (she tried, several times). They were going to be separated for a while and he wanted to be with his wife. Ducking his kiss at the beginning was already making him twig that something was off.

Loved it. Definitely one to rewatch, although I'm pretty proud of myself for what I caught on the first time through.

I suspected about half-way through that it was the non-hospital part that was real, but I really want to rewatch it to check out everything now that I know the whole deal.

YES! This show is going to be exactly what I wanted. I also loved Echo's imprint for the mission -- I saw a bit of Faith in the attitude and casual buttkicking, which made it very entertaining on the surface-level, and that's a good thing. That moment in the end made me shout out loud.

It was completely awesome! I also loved the imprint (Jordan?) that Echo had. The accent was a lot of fun.

Am I the only person not hating Boomer right now?
Um, probably? *g*

I want to like Boomer, I really do, but they're writing her pretty black-hat evil at the moment. :( I think she was sincere at the end saying goodbye/subtly apologizing to Chief. And I think she's had the worst life ever, and frankly it's hard to say she's ever been given a chance to turn it around and be accepted by the 'good guys' again -- this episode showed that everybody STILL hates her and wants her dead, even Ellen won't stand up for her, so what are her options really? That said, yikes.

(P.S. Holy crap I need your flist instead of my flist. All my BSG friends want to talk about is how hooooorrible the show is every week. I forgot what it was like to see people being enthusiastic about it. ETA: Okay, that's a little unfair, I have some happy people, but still. The negative makes me sad.)

You should check out my flist! A lot of people on there are so happy. I'm pretty happy, too, at the moment, but I'm pretty sure it's for completely different reasons (I'm the lone girl in the corner swooning over the Chief/Boomer kiss).

But yes, I'm not sure that I think Boomer has any good options, just less awful ones. As you said, Galactica (with the exception of Tyrol) still hated her and wanted her dead, despite being able to work right next to cylons that were part of the initial genocide of the Colonies (include Caprica, who snapped a baby's neck in the miniseries).

I can't see her as a black-hat because... a black-hat would have killed Athena, not beat her up. A black-hat wouldn't have been so uncomfortable and edgy about the idea of sleeping with Helo to throw him off the trail. A black-hat wouldn't have asked Tyrol to come with her. A very dark grey hat is where I'm living.

Yeah, it bothers me that Boomer is the *one Cylon* they're eager to get rid of, when she's the one who had the least control over anything she did to them in the past. And now that attitude looks totally justified because of her sneaky destructive behavior. Self-fulfilling prophecy, you know? >:(

Still, it was pretty indefensible. Yeah she didn't do it with a mustache-twirling song and dance, but I'm not giving her bonus points for not killing Athena. Ripping everything she cares about away from her, she might as well have.

A very dark grey hat is where I'm living.
Hee. I'll go with that. I still want last-minute redemption! And already I can feel my maligned-female-character love kicking in as more people break out the sexist insults talking about her. (Omg, it *was* Helo who initiated the sex. It's not like she went looking for him to twist the knife deeper. It seemed to me like she went along with it so she wouldn't blow her cover, although she did enjoy it.)

I really, *really* wanted Tyrol to go with her. That would've been interesting.

Yeah, it bothers me that Boomer is the *one Cylon* they're eager to get rid of, when she's the one who had the least control over anything she did to them in the past. And now that attitude looks totally justified because of her sneaky destructive behavior. Self-fulfilling prophecy, you know? >:(

Exactly! Caprica was right next to her in the Occupation of New Caprica, plus was actually aware of what she was doing back in the beginning when the world went 'boom' and she gets cuddles and sympathy (not that I'm arguing for worse treatment for Caprica, as I quite like her, too). But it really does illustrate that Adama only cares about personal offenses. Blowing up the colonies is something he can forgive, no matter how many people died. Betrayal (even unwitting betrayal) of himself is unforgivable.

I'm not going to try to argue that Boomer's choices were good -- I agree that they completely sucked. I'm just not sure that she had any good choices. The Chief was certain (and I have to agree) that whatever trial Boomer got wasn't going to be fair -- Ellen, who was so concerned with Boomer's soul when her own ass was in trouble, pretty much wiped her hands clean of the affair once they were safely on Galactica.

If I was in enemy territory, with one friend at my back and hundreds/thousands of enemies, I probably would make really bad choices, too.

She could have tried doing what the Chief thought she was -- escaping on her own -- but I'm not sure how far she would have gotten without the 'Hera' bargaining chip. Without Hera on board, the fleet would have had no problems with shooting her down.

And already I can feel my maligned-female-character love kicking in as more people break out the sexist insults talking about her. (Omg, it *was* Helo who initiated the sex. It's not like she went looking for him to twist the knife deeper. It seemed to me like she went along with it so she wouldn't blow her cover, although she did enjoy it.)

It really was Helo who started things! And, you know, Helo's hot and I'm sure that he knew what he was doing, so it makes sense that, once they got into it, she enjoyed it (if nothing else, she really did need him to believe that she was into it).

I'm the lone girl in the corner swooning over the Chief/Boomer kiss.

YANA. BECAUSE OMG. *bounces* Even though it did lead to more heartache and betrayal for everyone...

They have had no kissing since S1. I was starved!

(I totally grinned at the Chief/Boomer kiss, even though I was fairly certain what was in the box)

It was such a lovely kiss, too, breaking into the projection world and everything.

I'm not hating her but wow stealing Helo's and Athena's kid is not going to earn her brownie points.

No, but doing that may have kept her from being blown out of the sky. I don't agree at all with Boomer's choices... except the whole projection thing with Tyrol. I support that, like, 110%... but I do understand why she may have felt they were necessary. And given the attitude of the fleet toward her, I'm not sure that she's not correct in her assumption of how things would go (badly). This may be part of what she already knew she was going to regret (as per her words to Ellen).

I have a serious case of FOX syndrome with Dollhouse right now. It's totally rocking, but I keep telling myself that I can't get attached because it'll be canceled in a few weeks.

I know. I'm really loving the show, so I'm really dreading the possibility that it'll get crushed by FOX. I think that I may already be much more attached to this show than I was to Firefly after three episodes.

I'm pretty shocked at Boomer's level of evil. Self-preservation is one thing - so I really could even understand taking Hera as a hostage - but to have sex with Helo while making Athena watch? Completely unnecessary. That totally disgusted me.

But it seemed to me that Boomer tried to avoid that several times -- she ducks away from his kiss at least twice that I recall. Helo, quite understandably, wanted to be with his wife before they got separated for a while. She tried to skate out without having sex with him, but it only made him suspicious.

(sorry for all the edits -- typos will eat us all)

I might have to watch that again because it seemed to me like she was practically waiting for him, pouncing him the moment he walked in.

She was washing the blood off of her hands when he walked in. I remember because until they showed Athena in the closet, I was quite afraid that Boomer had actually killed her.

Hmmm.

I went ahead and rewatched the scene (because I was afraid that my partiality for Boomer had biased me) and she definitely avoids getting close to him until he asks her if something's wrong (she ducks away from a kiss and pulls away from him in a clear attempt to leave) -- at that point, she gets this determined look in her eyes and pulls him in for a kiss because it's clear that he's not going to just let her slip away. He's also the one to pull both her shirt and his off and there's a point in the scene where she pushes him away quite forcefully (then he takes his shirt off and we pan to the closet where Athena is). And when he first nuzzles her at the beginning, she has a very hunted look in her eyes in the mirror and there's this tiny intake of breath from her that just killed me this time -- she's definitely startled. She's just good at covering.

Okay, that does make things better for me. The way I had seen it was just really brutal.

Boomer remains the most interesting female character on BSG for me. (No surprise that the Chief is the most interesting male one.) Must vid!

Agreed about Dollhouse. I thought the bigger arc stuff was better than the standalone engagement this week.

Boomer remains the most interesting female character on BSG for me. (No surprise that the Chief is the most interesting male one.) Must vid!

I hope you do! I'm working on one of my own, but whether or not it'll work out depends on how they resolve her storyline.

Agreed about Dollhouse. I thought the bigger arc stuff was better than the standalone engagement this week.

The arc is adding up to be very intriguing.

Well...I was totally squeeing over the Chief/Boomer kiss before it went all betrayal on me. Now I don't know what to think. We'll see.

I'm going to maintain a sense of... well, not hope, but lack of despair.

Agreed, LOVED the victor reveal, that was fantastic!

It worked so well! And it looks like he's going to be working with Echo in the next episode, which is exciting.

I don't hate Boomer either. I like her a bit more now actually. I love that she tied Athena up and made her watch. That's horribly awesome considering that Athena pretended to be Boomer to be with Helo in the first place. Revenge.

She did. Athena and Helo's relationship really was based on his (unrequited) affection for Boomer and she used that for quite a while, giving him what he'd always wanted.

I love Boomer, poor misguided thing. Even if it was her mission to get Hera, even if she used Tyrol's affection for her, I think what she said about her affection for him was true. I feel for her, how badly humanity has rejected her, and how she's had to embrace her Cylon heritage to have any kind of acceptance. (And what's with all this "she seduced Helo" biz? She had to boff him or he'd have known something was up, that was what was up with that scene.)

I love Boomer, poor misguided thing. Even if it was her mission to get Hera, even if she used Tyrol's affection for her, I think what she said about her affection for him was true. I feel for her, how badly humanity has rejected her, and how she's had to embrace her Cylon heritage to have any kind of acceptance.

Yes. And this episode proved that even when she was helping them, she got treated worse than the cylons who were complicit in the attempted genocide of the colonies.

And what's with all this "she seduced Helo" biz? She had to boff him or he'd have known something was up, that was what was up with that scene.

I know! She really didn't have any choice with that scene -- she tried not to kiss him and he got suspicious.

I don't, like, hate Boomer.

What I enjoy about this show is that it's not about Teh Evil vs. Ultimate Good. There are just people who all have to live in this fucked up world, and are trying to see how all the pieces fit, and make choices based on what they (think) they know at the time. [I know some people hate Adama and/or Roslin, and I don't get that either. They're just doing the best they can with the cards they've been dealt.]

I knew what Boomer was going to do the minute she said to Tyrol in their first conversation that they both had figured out what they are now. She and Cavil see themselves/existence a certain way, and that informs their behavior.

I feel pity for her, because hell I feel pity for everyone, though I of course hated her actions in this episode (aka kidnapping a BABY that I really hope she and Cavil aren't planning on experimenting on - though, okay, probably that's the point). I would still wish peace for her character, if she can find it.

I think a happier path for her would have been to change her mind once seeing Tyrol again and defend herself passionately during the Cylon trial. The Rebels are, like, the crazy emotional LOVE IS GOD IS LOVE IS GOD models who I think could totally be pursuaded to forgive if she sold it right. It's in their nature to wish for grace. However, I have to agree with the writers that Boomer wouldn't do that, and would take the path she took. She gave into what (she thought) was inevitable on New Caprica and she's not going to fight now.

If we look at both Gina and Boomer, it seems to be that the sleepers who are implanted with hidden agendas and then wake up are just... broken beyond repair. It's just too psychologically tramatic.

If we look at both Gina and Boomer, it seems to be that the sleepers who are implanted with hidden agendas and then wake up are just... broken beyond repair. It's just too psychologically tramatic.

Which makes me despise the programmers so much. Both Gina and Boomer just get kicked so hard by the universe.

Since we've established that Cavil had the means (the only cylon child who has altered his own programming - eliminated sleep, natch - and reprogrammed the other models to forget the Final Five), motive, and opportunity... it makes it very, very hard sometimes not to hate him.

but then I remember his longing to truly understand the stars, and even though he's consumed with impotent rage & revenge I can't help but pity him as well. *sigh*

-however, I bet you a zillion colonial toothpastes that (a) he totally programmed Boomer to go boom and (b) she has no fracking idea the man she's fucking is the one who's comitted the first, deepest, darkest betrayal of all

poor. fucking. Boomer. Does the tragedy never end?

True, true. He is someone to be greatly pitied, because what he wants is something that he can never have (and, were he to gain it, he would no longer have the ability to emotionally appreciate it).

And I bet you're right that he was the mastermind behind the original sleeper programming. We haven't really seen anyone else capable of it.

I don't hate Boomer. I'm thinking that she did intend to join the good guys, and then the good guys wanted to kill her, so she needed a new plan. Tyrol helped her get out, with the aim of her getting away, maybe looking for a planet or something, but she was so mad and hurt and broken from how she is the show's punching bag that she decided that going back to Cavil was the only real option. But to go back to Cavil she needed leverage so he didn't just kill her, so she took Hera. And the shagging Helo? That was just the most expedient way of getting out of the situation, while also rubbing Athena's face in the fact that she has the life Boomer should of had and Boomer's got crap all. That's what I'm thinking.

Haven't watched Dollhouse yet so didn't even read what you wrote. Sorry. I'll probably be back once I've had a chance to see it. :D

I don't hate Boomer. I'm thinking that she did intend to join the good guys, and then the good guys wanted to kill her, so she needed a new plan.

They didn't even give her a chance. All of those cylons helped kill millions/billions and they're allowed to redeem themselves, but the humans will sign away Boomer's life (because, yeah, I'm with the Chief in thinking that the only verdict that would have ever come out of that trial would be 'guilty').

I mean, the choices that Boomer made were horrible, but she didn't have any good options.

She's like Faith in Buffyverse. Faith pays for her sins, voluntarily goes off to prison, clearly feels remose, tries to stay good and still, she's just not as good or worthy or whatever as Buffy. And is repeatedly reminded of it, even in the comics. *tired BTVS Faithy grumble* I wonder what it is about certain characters that writers just decide, "yeah. everything bad can just happen to them. noone will ever give them a chance, not really. basically, no matter what they do, they're fucked"?

I love this discussion, and I'm glad there are people who sympathize with Boomer. The girl never got a chance. I'm with everyone who's annoyed that the cylons complicit in the genocide get forgiveness and are allowed to roam around the ship, but Boomer who had nothing to do with it or any choice in shooting Adama is denied even a chance to defend herself.

Admittedly, I'm not a big fan of Athena, so I wasn't too upset with what Boomer did to her. Athena must have known that Boomer had no choice when she was programmed to shoot Adama, but she never said anything in Boomer's defense. She just outed Boomer to Tigh so he wouldn't let her on the ship and once again, Boomer gets rejected by Galactica.

Admittedly, I'm not a big fan of Athena, so I wasn't too upset with what Boomer did to her. Athena must have known that Boomer had no choice when she was programmed to shoot Adama, but she never said anything in Boomer's defense. She just outed Boomer to Tigh so he wouldn't let her on the ship and once again, Boomer gets rejected by Galactica.

I think that Athena is all-too-aware that her happiness was always built on Boomer's bones -- Helo couldn't tell the difference between them when he slept with Boomer this episode and, in the deepest way, that makes sense because Boomer was the woman that he originally fell in love with -- he loved the Boomer that worked on Galactica and adored Tyrol. And Athena knows that, she knows that she was originally a copy of the woman that he loved, though I don't doubt that his love for Athena as she is now is true.

Re: TSCC.

I thought it's a really good parallel with the Good Wound. She drew strength from John just like with Kyle.

Brief reactions to Friday TV: BSG, Sarah Connor, Dollhouse

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