butterfly: (Time Lord Science)
butterfly ([personal profile] butterfly) wrote2007-09-21 08:05 pm
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Doctor Who: Did we need Martha?

Because Russell T Davies seemed to feel that the show needed to have a character who would fall in (unrequited) love with the Doctor, thus illustrating the difference between Rose and everyone else. Did it?

In some superficial ways, Martha is quite a lot like Rose -- pretty, clever Londoner girls, both of them. They even get some echo dialogue in the early episodes. The show puts them in comparable situations frequently. There are both parallels to draw and contrasts to mark.

Mostly, though, there's the Doctor.

I wasn't surprised about Martha's emotional arc. And, though it was heavy-handed at times ("He had to fall in love with a human... and it wasn't me."), I actually do agree with RTD that it was necessary. In order to establish someone as One Thing, you need to establish someone else as Other Thing. And, in this particular context, he wanted to make a distinction between one character and the entire history and future of characters to come.

Yes -- Martha was, in part, all about how special Rose was. Which sucks if you hate Rose. If you hate Rose Tyler, then a series of television that is basically saying, "Yeah, that blonde chick? One of a kind," is pretty much guaranteed to piss you off (and, of course, to the person desperately missing Rose, having episode after episode point out how irreplaceable she was is hardly going to help in the process of getting over her).

But... as the show makes very, very clear -- Rose isn't special in the ultimate 'best person ever' way. She's special in the 'best person for this one specific character/relationship' way. The Doctor writes out that she's 'perfect Rose' and, to him, she is. Now, was Rose actually portrayed as a 'perfect' character?

*bursts out laughing*

She could be petty and jealous. She wandered off. She had a tendency to throw herself into dangerous situations for personal reasons. She nearly destroyed the world because she couldn't listen to instructions. Rose Tyler was flawed.

In a lot of ways, Martha is a 'better' person. Higher class (which matters to some people). More education. Better at staying put and following instructions. Tends to do the right thing. Not so apt to get into trouble. Again, not a perfect person (she, too, had the flaw of 'jealousy'), but from an objective standpoint, probably a better bet to make. But, as they say, the heart has reasons that reason cannot know.

Now, Martha is not the first time that New Who made the distinction between Rose and Other Companions. In fact, every time that the Doctor took on someone else, it was made clear that the Doctor and Rose were a unit and other folk were nice but not necessary (something that Jack took much more easily than Mickey). Rose is the person who invites Adam and Jack on board and is also clearly the impetus for the Doctor inviting Sarah Jane on board.

There are two pre-S3 examples of the difference between Rose and Everyone Else. The first is in The Parting of the Ways, when the Doctor sends Rose home, keeps her out of danger, while everyone else is involved in the fighting (made very clear when he calls her over to help him with the wiring and takes her out of the 'active fighter' count). The second is in School Reunion and the conversation in the street that ends with the Doctor telling Rose that she won't be left behind and very nearly telling her that he loves her ("Imagine watching that happen to someone you-").

And SR, of course, has Sarah Jane -- who serves as our stand-in for Old School Companions. The Doctor very clearly has both admiration and affection for Sarah Jane (just as he does for Martha), but he's utterly thrown by the notion that he was her 'life' and that she couldn't move on without him (we see this echoed when Martha says that the Doctor is 'everything' to her, while she's basically a side-note to him -- a fun, smart, lovable side-note, but a side-note nonetheless). And both Sarah Jane and Martha have to choose to say good-bye to the Doctor in order to start getting over him.

Back when S3 was first airing, I pondered the notion that RTD was using Martha to 'ramp down' from the idea of the Doctor as a sexual/romantic person. Grace was the ramp up, a person that the Doctor was interested in who liked him not his life; Rose was the bridge (the apex; the climax; the transformation), someone he adored who adored both him and the life he offered; and Martha was someone who liked the life he offered, thought he was attractive, but didn't seem to know or like him very much as a person. Going right from Grace and Rose to a Doctor/companion relationship that was completely lacking in romance/sexuality would either be a bit of a harsh break or possibly lead to confusion. So, in order to make his divisions clear, RTD put in an intermediary position where the Doctor was clearly still a sexual/romantic figure ('lost prince') but had no interest in pursuing sex or romance (and I find it so fascinating that both of the 'unsuitable' choices were doctors -- it may show that the Doctor needs someone who complements him, not someone who echoes him).

RTD appears to believe that Martha was a necessary character to show the difference between Rose and the rest of the Doctor's companions. In balance, though I think her part could have been more strongly written, I agree.



ETA: In the end, I think the real problem with Martha is that they only had a six-episode story to tell with her (Smith & Jones through Gridlock and Utopia through Last of the Time Lords). She would have worked better if she hadn't stayed the whole season.

[identity profile] magicallaw.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 12:48 am (UTC)(link)
I think mostly of things like her saying, in Blink, that Billy should 'Just nod when he stops for breath.' -- it kind of exemplified what I felt from her character from day one.

Cos Rose never made little side comments like that she?

And I'm sorry but did you not see Series 3 where she falls in love with him?
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[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 01:29 am (UTC)(link)
Cos Rose never made little side comments like that she?

To the effect of saying, "Oh, don't listen to him babble, just do as he says." Not so much.

And I'm sorry but did you not see Series 3 where she falls in love with him?

Are you referring to the lust she acquired in Smith and Jones or the scary faith she developed in Gridlock? Either way, it doesn't come across as a very genuine love for the person that the Doctor is -- she snarks about his lost love, gets pissy when they're trapped together, and never shows much joy in just his company. That doesn't add up to love for me -- it adds up to a crush on the ideal that she's made him out to be.
nostariel: Rogue from the X-Men, captioned "Don't touch me." (Default)

[personal profile] nostariel 2007-09-23 01:37 am (UTC)(link)
*looks around*

So, is it time to beak out the cat macros yet?

(I really need one about Doctor Who being Srs Bizns, but I have a couple others that'll do in a pinch)

[identity profile] stoplookingup.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 01:44 am (UTC)(link)
If you believe that romantic love is the only thing that matters, perhaps. If you believe that having a 'one true love' means that you never care about anyone else every again, perhaps.

What is the point of the concept of "one true love" if not to elevate that love above others? And please don't bring people's children and mothers and brothers into it. We're not talking about children and mothers and brothers. If a man's wife dies, and he marries again, how do you suppose his second wife will feel when cousin Edna comes over and tells her, "Y'know, his first wife was his One True Love, but he loves you, too"?

As I said, I blame Rusty for throwing the OTP pass more than the people who just picked it up and ran with it. But I do think it's terribly disingenuous to insist that you're very happy seeing Rose as the OTP, but in no way does that taint past and future companions -- disingenuous on Rusty's part as well as the fans. If he wanted to reinvent the series, he should have done so in a more honest way, along the lines of Battlestar Galactica, where the break with the old series is clear and up front. What's more, for Rusty to carry on with the series after he's compromised it, and to offer us new characters that he intentionally undermines (opening up opportunities for fans of his "authorized" ship to ask whether they new character is even NECESSARY) -- I mean, why?

Unless he's going somewhere with all this. Hope springs eternal. Cuz right now, it's a bloody mess.
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[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:15 am (UTC)(link)
Ha!

Yeah, the post really kinda exploded. Maybe if I'd known, I either wouldn't have written it or flocked it, but, hey -- who doesn't love 100+ comments on their second day back from a brief fandom vacation? I mean, it really reminds me of what... honestly, it reminds me of what I try to avoid about fandom, but today I'm mostly finding it all amusing.

The thing that makes me sad is that Martha had the potential to be a really fantastic character, but was underwritten terribly and given the huge burden of her unrequited love for the Doctor as her main emotional arc (which could have been pulled off if she's either had a shorter arc or more depth to the other parts of her arc). I can see what they wanted the character to be, but the writing wasn't there. The quantum leap that Martha makes from 'attracted' to 'blindly faithful of' in Gridlock still doesn't make much sense to me.
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[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:20 am (UTC)(link)
I think that they may have gone a little too far in the other direction. Because I felt that Martha was in an emotional holding pattern from the end of Gridlock to the beginning of Utopia and it was a little boring to see the same kind of stuff from her week after week.

Plus, with Martha, they took away the strength of the character we met in Smith and Jones, turned her into someone much more insecure than she'd originally come off as, and had her 'develop' so that she could end up in the same emotionally-strong place that we'd met her in at the beginning. Martha is my big disappointment from RTD (much like The Girl in the Fireplace was my big disappointment with Moffat), because I know he can do better.
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)

[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:22 am (UTC)(link)
True. Though it's disappointing to know that about other people, it's also helpful.
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[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:26 am (UTC)(link)
Hee. Poor Turlough. Who, btw, I thought was kinda slashy with the Doctor (in a similar, though less forceful, way as the Master is). Five is totally my second favorite version of the Doctor.
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[identity profile] lizbee.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:30 am (UTC)(link)
I wouldn't say "Gridlock" -- I think up to "42", there was a strong arc developing her character and her relationship to the Doctor, to the point where they had reached a stable Doctor-companion relationship. Which is promptly undermined by "Human Nature"/"Family of Blood" -- how can you say she had no character development there? -- and then after that, the narrative focus shifts firmly to the Doctor, up until "Last of the Time Lords".

Plus, with Martha, they took away the strength of the character we met in Smith and Jones, turned her into someone much more insecure than she'd originally come off as, and had her 'develop' so that she could end up in the same emotionally-strong place that we'd met her in at the beginning. Martha is my big disappointment from RTD (much like The Girl in the Fireplace was my big disappointment with Moffat), because I know he can do better.

I never had any faith in RTD, but I too was put off by the way Martha was diminished. It made the Doctor look like a jerk, which is interesting, but not really appropriate for the premise, and it's definitely not a good way to write a character who's been kicking around for 44 years.

But I don't think season 3 was about Rose -- she was the red herring -- the Doctor's real, lingering angst was about Gallifrey, and in the end, Martha (and Jack) took second place to that.
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)

[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:31 am (UTC)(link)
*bounces*

I love Five. He appears all retiring and nice and... his episodes totally have, I think (though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), the largest body count in the series. He's probably the guy that made Clive think that the Doctor brings the 'storm in his wake' and has death as his constant companion, because... damn.

I haven't actually listened to any of the audios -- sadly, I'm very much not a radio-drama person. Or an audio-book person -- I love David Tennant's voice and I think that The Stone Rose is a fun little book, but I had to turn the audio version off after five minutes because it just doesn't work for me. I like audio-visual media and I like books, but plain audio on its own doesn't tend to do it for me.
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[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:36 am (UTC)(link)
A friend of mine really adores Ace. I'm looking forward to meeting her (I just keep getting distracted -- I'm such a fannish butterfly (hence the name) and currently have nine shows that I plan to watch this fall).

My favorite is still Tennant, but Davidson is a close second in my heart and I have this big soft spot for Hartnell (and the Doctor's relationship with Susan, which makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside... until the good-bye, which was just devastating and made me wonder if he ever got to see her again before Gallifrey went boom) and I like Colin Baker's Doc rather more than I think I'm supposed to.
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)

*note

[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:37 am (UTC)(link)
Being as there is apparently uncertainty as regarding the canon nature of The Five Doctors.

[identity profile] biichan.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:54 am (UTC)(link)
Damn skippy!

[identity profile] stoplookingup.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:56 am (UTC)(link)
But I don't think season 3 was about Rose -- she was the red herring -- the Doctor's real, lingering angst was about Gallifrey, and in the end, Martha (and Jack) took second place to that.

One of the really interesting revelations is that Rose IS Gallifrey -- someone who had all that messy last-of-his-kind genocide-committing guilt in the Doctor's head displaced onto her poor, 19-year-old head. He KNEW she was a talisman, a kind of protective device from all that...and that she would leave him, too, and it would all come crashing down worse than ever. But he did it anyway. And that's what played out in S3 -- it's when everything he's put off comes crashing down around him, with the Master as the personification of the Doctor's desperation.

[identity profile] opheliastorn.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:56 am (UTC)(link)
Especially when it consists of whinging about how a certain RL health sci student can get straight As and A-pluses and still have time and energy to undertake epic laser force battles... grr.
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[identity profile] lizbee.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 02:59 am (UTC)(link)
"I lied to her. And I liked it."

That line in "Gridlock" basically sums up the Tenth Doctor's relationships with all his companions to a certain extent. That and "I'm so old now. I used to have so much mercy" perfectly encapsulates Ten for me.

[identity profile] stoplookingup.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 03:01 am (UTC)(link)
"I lied to her. And I liked it."

Need icon. Just saying.

[identity profile] biichan.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 03:03 am (UTC)(link)
He was. Jamie, however, was married to the Doctor and one of the reasons I don't buy into your Rose Is The Doctor's One True Love theory is that Jamie is and all the evidence got burninated. Although despite that, there's enough stills of them clinging to each other that one could infer it anyway. Plus, eight lives down the line he still remembers Jamie in T&C.

I also don't buy that the Doctor's S3 emo was terribly much about Rose. It felt to me as more of a general Gallifrey Go Boom thing, with his recent loss of Rose just making everything worse.

[identity profile] principia-coh.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 03:08 am (UTC)(link)
Wow, way to hyperbolize my statement that she should have at least been shown as giving some thought to her studies. And of the many medical students I've known, the nature of the training does force you to be pretty monomaniacal, because you really aren't given the opportunity or time to do much of anything else. See Tish's comment to Martha in TLE: 'Wow, two nights out in a row. That's dangerously close to a social life.'

If you're determined to take offense on behalf of a fictional character who essentially decided to play an extended bout of (ostensibly) consequence-free hooky, then so be it.

[identity profile] principia-coh.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 03:11 am (UTC)(link)
So, what, once you've been told something once or been shown how to do something once you remember it for-evah without having to have it repeated or practice it yourself? It must be nice to be you.

[identity profile] principia-coh.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 03:14 am (UTC)(link)
There's a vast difference between not sacrificing more than a few days in her original timeline and having blown at least a year and a half, probably more like two years, completely away from her studies. No, one of those years wasn't her choice, but I doubt she was exactly hitting the books while she was wandering around preaching the gospel of the Doctor.
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[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 03:14 am (UTC)(link)
If a man's wife dies, and he marries again, how do you suppose his second wife will feel when cousin Edna comes over and tells her, "Y'know, his first wife was his One True Love, but he loves you, too"?

Some men's wives die and they marry again. Some men's wives die and they never do. Is the second choice an invalid one? Falling in love is... unpredictable. For some people, it does happen more than once and that is a blessing. For some people, it never happens at all. And, for some, they only fall in love once.

And, in neither of those cases, does that love tarnish what came before and what comes after. Love cannot be quantified nor can it be forced, borrowed or stolen. Honestly, the notion that romantic love taints all other kinds of love is so utterly alien to me that it's like we're speaking two separate languages.

[identity profile] lcsbanana.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 03:21 am (UTC)(link)
Well, I managed to leave off studying Ancient Greek for a year and pick it right back up after a week of studying hard. You can learn a language, go years and years without speaking it, and it comes back to you within a couple weeks. Knowledge does not disappear, it goes dormant, as anyone who has ever taken a break from school would know.

(Oh noes! I left class for three months! BACK TO 101 WITH ME.)

[identity profile] principia-coh.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 03:27 am (UTC)(link)
If you think the rabid Martha fans have been quiet, you obviously haven't spent much time on any of the remotely Martha-oriented communities, or suffered from a bunch of them decamping to your journal and heaping personal abuse upon you for being a fan of Rose. I've witnessed these things personally.

Picking particularly poor examples of crap!fic on Teaspoon as the justification for painting the entire community of Who fans who happen to like Rose as nuts is patently unfair, and I'm not interested in playing that game with you.

You and I have clearly been watching a different show for the past 27 years or so if you think the way Rose has been portrayed is identical to how previous Doctor/Companion relationships have been. If you'd prefer to think that David Tennant playing the Doctor as being in love with Rose is overacting, then that's your prerogative.

What this essentially boils down to, for me, is that if you don't like the person playing the Doctor, you don't like the writers of the show, and hate the companion that's had the most significant role in New Who so far, then why are you watching it? More importantly, why do people feel the need to watch it, dislike it, and then versus complaining to the people making the show where it might actually have some impact, they'd rather hound people who have the temerity to like the show largely as written?

This isn't to say I don't have criticisms for the way certain issues have been handled in the show (obviously, since I think Martha got used about as badly as a chew toy between two pit bulls, and since I think they did a solid disservice to Sarah Jane in SR's retcon), or that I don't think critical discussions of the show are warranted, but when every discussion about any problem in any of the episodes eventually boils down to people who don't like Rose jumping in and yelling 'ROSE SUX AND IT'S ALL HER FAULT!', it just gets old.
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Re: and two...

[identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 03:28 am (UTC)(link)
I prefer to put it this way -- from the show that gave us a hero who's committed genocide and a heroine with an Electra complex, I was hoping for a central relationship more complex and nuanced than the one in Disney's Alladin.

Then perhaps 'ruined the premise of the series' wasn't the phrase that you were searching for. Also, I should let you know that I think Freud's research was seriously flawed and that he was, basically, projecting his own issues onto the whole of humanity.

Issues? Yeah, genocide'll give you issues.

Well, if it doesn't, you were probably fucked up already. Being with Rose couldn't fix the way killing his people felt. But she let him see the universe with new eyes and that... that's worth something right there.

But I can't actually blame you, because you're seeing the gloss that RTD put there.

Wow. That's... incredibly insulting. When you wrote that, were you aware of how insulting it was? I've been watching television for, oh, quite a while now. I've read a lot of meta and, also, actual literary criticism of various novels and plays. I'm not, as you seem to believe, someone who stumbled onto Doctor Who and said, "Ooo! The pictures move! Shiny!"

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