butterfly | Stargate clicks (and Farscape didn't)

Stargate clicks (and Farscape didn't)

I was trying to figure out why Farscape didn't work for me. I mean, I'd watch the show if you put it in front of me. I like it, but... fuck, I spent $100 on Stargate within weeks of having seen my first episode.

But I adored Stargate on first glance. And I adore Firefly (which I pre-ordered on amazon before it came out). I do embrace the space quirk, people.

What I don't embrace, apparently, is the romance. Farscape is so... J/A. The show 'ships John and Aeryn.

John and Aeryn excite me as much as the idea of eating spam every day for the rest of my life.

I watch them on the screen together and I like them both quite a lot, really. Just... not on the screen together. And Farscape is a romance. It's build around the J/A romance. People involved with the show have confirmed as much and it drips from the screen. It's a love story, but it's not one that I enjoy and that taints the parts of the show that I do enjoy (like Chiana, who I do utterly adore and who apparently gets utterly screwed over in the last season).

Stargate isn't a love story. It's mostly about four separate journeys that wind together in brilliant and beautiful patterns. That kid whose name I couldn't spell but he's Sha're's son, you know the one, (and Oma) set out one of the things that rings true to me so far in my Stargate viewage -- each man must walk his chosen path alone... I would kill to be able to watch the entire series -- this will probably be the only time you'll seen me mourn the fact that the show is still going, as it means I can't make definite statements of meaning. There is so much to explore in what Oma says -- as Daniel says, to decide if she's worth listening to.

The ending of a story is what ultimately determines its meaning. Until you see the last scene, you can't place the rest into context. A Buffy that ended at The Gift would have contained a far different meaning than the Buffy that ended at Chosen. The last sentence is what makes the rest of the story exist as a story. It is the ending that makes the tale what it is, because nothing ends and each ending is only a new beginning. Skip to the very end of an episode, and you'll see what the emotional heart of it was. That's almost always true in my viewing (I honestly can't think of any exceptions, but the possibility exists).

Tangent -- it's a culture-bred girl thing, to be so afraid of confrontation (as exemplified by fanfic_hate). Catty high-school behavior, because that's where it's taught and reinforced. Slink around and say bad things behind someone's back because you wouldn't want to be seen as a 'bitch'.

I definitely respect people who stand up and say what they think (I have several very out-spoken people on my flist that I admire very much, though you probably wouldn't know it, since I do, in fact, suck at commenting). Mostly, I'm sure, because I don't have that kind of strength when it comes to negative things. Even positive sometimes. I love something, someone else hates it, and there's always that flickering doubt -- "What am I seeing wrong?" My first impulse is always to doubt my own feelings and instincts, despite how very much I believe that one can't and shouldn't be thought badly of for them. My open-mindedness usually fades when it comes to myself.

Which a rather roundabout way to get back on-topic by saying that I felt hella guilty writing that Farscape didn't effect me like Stargate does. I mean, it's a personal viewing preference and our culture (my family, my upbringing, my personality) has me feeling guilty about it! It's horrifying, when you think about it.

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See, I've watched about four Stargate episodes, they were nice enough but did not touch anything deeper in me, and I don't feel guilty at all. I've no doubt it's a good show, but it's probably not for me. There is no reason why it shouldn't be similar for you and FS.

Farscape as a love story: among other things, but there are enough people who focus on Chiana, Crais, Stark, Scorpius, Harvey or whomever, don't 'ship J/A at all and still are obsessed with the show. Me, I only object to J/A in the later half of season 4. And even then, the romance aspect does not distract me from what, to me, is the main storyline, the journey of the broken hero, and as you know (see: Buffy, Frodo, Harry), I'm a sucker for messed-up, broken heroes.

See, I've watched about four Stargate episodes, they were nice enough but did not touch anything deeper in me, and I don't feel guilty at all.

Because you don't have as many Issues as me. Or, at least not the same ones.

Farscape as a love story: among other things, but there are enough people who focus on Chiana, Crais, Stark, Scorpius, Harvey or whomever, don't 'ship J/A at all and still are obsessed with the show.

The problem for me is that, for once, for the only time that I can think of, authorial intent is clouding me. Someone important (can't remember who, but it was on one of the commentaries, I think) said that the J/A story was The Point.

And part of it bothers me because I do enough the broken hero storyline so. But John is all tangled up in Aeryn and... it reminds me of Buffy and Spike. I can't articulate the whys of it, but it really does. I watch the Big Romance of the show and it strikes me as so incredibly unhealthy and I can't even find the words to explain why.

Ben Browder (who plays Crichton) said it once, I do remember that, but actors are not authors.

Incidentally, I'd say the J/A romance changes its quality. In season 2, Aeryn was certainly the thin thread that kept John still sane, and he in turn awakened the emotions in her in the first two seasons. By the end of season 4, however, they've become co-dependent in a definitely unhealthy way; he's ready to committ murder for her, and she's so focused on him that nothing else registers anymore.

However, season 4 was never meant to be the end of the story; they didn't get told they were to be cancelled in time. So I presume season 5 would have seen the two of them recovering. But be that as it may, I was always able to see J/A as just one of several storylines, and one of several relationships of the show.

Ben Browder (who plays Crichton) said it once, I do remember that, but actors are not authors.

Odd, that he'd be the one to say it. You'd think that he would think of John's story first.

To be fair, most of his known input in the show is very thoughtful and positive - he was the one, according to the writers, who said John should be showing the effects of having been tortured on a long-term basis, and he also brought up John's mother and wondered why John never talked about her (as opposed to the father), which inspired Richard Manning to the Leslie sections in Won't Get Fooled Again. Moreover, the two episodes Browder wrote are actually good ensemble pieces which belong to the season arcs in question, as opposed to the stand-alone vehicles you usually get when you let actors loose on the pen.

Maybe he's a romantic?

Hmm. And one of his pieces was that green-eyed episode, the really J/A-y one, yes?

He does sound like he's a romantic. And, you know, I'm a romantic, too. I just wish he were romantic about a couple that I didn't find unhealthy and cliche (he's traveled to the other end of the galaxy and still manages to fall in love with a chick who can easily pass as human) and... not terribly interesting to me.

I'm glad to hear I was not the only one to start watching Star Gate and be unable to get into it. With the way my friend's list goes on about it, and the fact that they are into the umpteenth season of the show, I thought it would be a natural for me. So I rented it, and it just wasn't clicking.

Same thing happened for me with Farscape. The setting, the characters--I just wasn't vibing with it. And the quirkiness just isn't my brand of quirkiness.

It's ultimately a to each their own deal. I never could get into either Stargate or Farscape - but then, my tastes run more towards the historical rather than the futurist in fantasy. You like what you like. I like what I like. It's happy enough to find areas where those likes overlap.

Tangent -- it's a culture-bred girl thing, to be so afraid of confrontation (as exemplified by fanfic_hate).

Interestingly, the more I've thought about it - the more I can think on which anonymous posters were male. Certainly, there's a female catty dynamic. But there is a male one as well.

In a community of mostly men (and particularly competetive ones), you'd expect to see folks want to claim credit as a way to display prowess. In mixed company it's different. (You may be familiar with the jokes about what goes through a guy's mind when his wife asks if she looks fat.)

In recent years, one of the side effects of the increased focus on sensitivity is that some folks think we're taught that to show respect means to not be critical. And I know cases where guys learn the lesson thusly: that I can't say what I think, not because it would be wrong of me, but because the 'other' person couldn't handle it, and it's not worth trying to make them understand. Those would be the males commenting anonymously at FF_hate. They aren't afraid of confrontation - they just don't want to have to deal with the people they confront.

It's a different dynamic, but in the case of FF_Hate, you get these bad aspects of both genders converging into a really toxic environment for a lot of people.

It's a different dynamic, but in the case of FF_Hate, you get these bad aspects of both genders converging into a really toxic environment for a lot of people.

Oh, yes. Very toxic. I keep hoping that people venting hate will somehow release it, but that can't happen in a community that encourages hate to grow.

At least where it counts. You may not confront others, but you do confront yourself. You are what I consider the most courageous type of person, one that can be honest with herself. This entry is yet another example of this. You are confronting your own inability to confront others. I think it is beautiful to watch.

Most of those people that are so good at confronting others do so because they are really cowards who can't deal with their own shit. I don't really find it admirable when they do that. Jesus said it best, "Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?"

One of my favorite sayings is there is strength in weakness. By sharing your doubt, by showing your weakness, you are an incredibly strong woman.

Not going to deal with the stuff going on at any group that openly labels themselves hate. I had enough hatred on the net last summer. This summer, I want to spend my time working on my own season 6 for AtS. I've already got the first third outlined and the overall arc sketched. Hopefully it won't be interpreted as anti-the various other season 6 projects out there. I just have my own ideas and like to explore them. It is a good exercise for me as a writer.

I also loved Stargate and wasn't too much into Farscape. I think the hook for me is as much as I think Erich Von Daniken's "Chariot of the Gods" was extremely racist, I love the mythology angle to Stargate. I liked Battlestar Galactica for the same reason. It wasn't the story that got me so much as the universe itself. I don't like the universe for Farscape.

And Daniel? What a hottie on so many levels.

This summer, I want to spend my time working on my own season 6 for AtS. I've already got the first third outlined and the overall arc sketched. Hopefully it won't be interpreted as anti-the various other season 6 projects out there. I just have my own ideas and like to explore them. It is a good exercise for me as a writer.

Very much looking forward to seeing how that all works out for you.

I also loved Stargate and wasn't too much into Farscape. I think the hook for me is as much as I think Erich Von Daniken's "Chariot of the Gods" was extremely racist, I love the mythology angle to Stargate. I liked Battlestar Galactica for the same reason. It wasn't the story that got me so much as the universe itself. I don't like the universe for Farscape.

I have to admit that I adore the way SG approachs mythology. Whoever was the original person to have that whole idea, including the Stargate concept, was very inventive.

I think that that might indeed be part of it. I like the universe of SG. It resonates.

And Daniel? What a hottie on so many levels.

And in so many ways.

Yeah I know what you mean. So, many of my friends Love, love, Love Farscape. “I tried,” she said with a little high noted whine in her voice, but, while we might be acquaintances, there was just no spark between us. I’d say to people, “It’s not Farscape, really, it’s me.”

While I’m not obsessed with Stargate, I do think we’re good friends in a Monday night Stargate marathon on Sci Fi sort of way. I think that it’s while I find certain of the characters quite attractive, I genuinely like all of the characters. These are people that I’d want to hang with for an hour a week (or four on Mondays). And well, the resolution of the episodes aren’t always pat. Yesterday has implications for tomorrow. Good stuff.

Oh, and in a Daniel sort of way, while I never got into Andromeda, the actor who plays Daniel showed up twice there in a…very un-Daniel role. But woah, with the angry sexy. And thus the reason why I do Love, love, Love, my Tivo.

'no spark' -- yes, that's it, exactly.

Which a rather roundabout way to get back on-topic by saying that I felt hella guilty writing that Farscape didn't effect me like Stargate does. I mean, it's a personal viewing preference and our culture (my family, my upbringing, my personality) has me feeling guilty about it!

AAAAGH! You no like Farscape? ((rushes to defriend))

JOKE, jokejoke. I know exactly the feeling you talk about in your last para -- "I'm so sorry I don't like what you like!" I'm not actually that crazy about SG-1, but I'd watched it enough times and knew some of your tastes well enough to think you'd fall like a ton of bricks for Daniel, and it was cute seeing just that happen and thinking "Aha! I was right!" So I don't enjoy the hell out of the show, but I enjoyed your reaction, if that makes sense.

I actually didn't get into Fscape until fairly late, about "Liars, Guns and Money," so I was a lot more focused on Busted John than John-n-Aeryn and I will freely admit I like the trippy eps (like "Crackers Don't Matter," "Through the Looking-Glass" and "Won't Get Fooled Again") a lot more than eps like "The Locket." I personally don't think the J/A dynamic really took over the show until S3, which is, yeah, when the other characters got a little shortchanged (and I hafta admit I didn't like S4 much at all until about "Unrealized Reality"). I don't think it's so much just a story about the love between J/A, but the love that they all come to feel for each other -- the crew becomes a real family, and that's what's highlighted and drawn out in (IMHO) the very best eps.

Who knows, if you tried it again later you might like it better, or if someone showed you some eps that weren't so J/A-centric you might get more interested in other parts of the show. But sheesh, no need to apologize if it just doesn't grab you.

And Ben Browder, although cute, was soo wrong -- the Romance isn't between John/Aeryn, but between John/Skorpy. ((grins wickedly))

I'm not actually that crazy about SG-1, but I'd watched it enough times and knew some of your tastes well enough to think you'd fall like a ton of bricks for Daniel, and it was cute seeing just that happen and thinking "Aha! I was right!" So I don't enjoy the hell out of the show, but I enjoyed your reaction, if that makes sense.

It does. And it's very cool that you did, in fact, know me that well (though, to be honest, I don't do a terrific job of hiding the things that excite me about characters).

And it's very cool that you did, in fact, know me that well (though, to be honest, I don't do a terrific job of hiding the things that excite me about characters).

Wellyeah, a regular reader of your lj could probably have figured it out. But it was still fun thinking "Ha, she's going to get so into this, and Daniel in particular...." It's a funny little pleasure, I don't know how to describe it exactly....

I do embrace the space quirk, people.

I guess I'm just a Fool for Quirk. The J/A romance doesn't actually interest me all that much, but the show had me at Harvey and Crackers Don't Matter. I can't resist the weirdness. But I do know how you feel - there are aspects of Alias that I love, for example, but my complete lack of interest in the OTP keeps driving me away.

Stargate isn't a love story. It's mostly about four separate journeys that wind together in brilliant and beautiful patterns.

Yeah, the show doesn't have quite the same kinds of emotional highs and lows that Buffy and Farscape do, but it's powerful in a different way, and one that I think they've been able to sustain so well because it isn't all centered around romantic relationships. I'm enjoying the change, and the fact that it's the rare show that takes friendship seriously instead of treating it as something that either leads to or distracts from the Epic Romance.

I guess I'm just a Fool for Quirk. The J/A romance doesn't actually interest me all that much, but the show had me at Harvey and Crackers Don't Matter. I can't resist the weirdness. But I do know how you feel - there are aspects of Alias that I love, for example, but my complete lack of interest in the OTP keeps driving me away.

So, Farscape is my Alias (which, incidentally, I've never seen), then.

Yeah, the show doesn't have quite the same kinds of emotional highs and lows that Buffy and Farscape do, but it's powerful in a different way, and one that I think they've been able to sustain so well because it isn't all centered around romantic relationships. I'm enjoying the change, and the fact that it's the rare show that takes friendship seriously instead of treating it as something that either leads to or distracts from the Epic Romance.

Yes, I adore the friendship vibe. They have a great fourway dynamic.

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Stargate clicks (and Farscape didn't)

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I think you are confrontational

Re: I think you are confrontational

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hee

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