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Vampire Diaries: just a couple more thoughts re: S2 so far
We've got something going on with these powerful Damon scenes showcasing his emotional journey - in "The Return", overcome by powerful negative emotions, Damon snaps Jeremy's neck. In "Rose", Damon confesses his love to Elena, but doesn't want her to keep the memory. He doesn't feel like he's worthy of her. Now, in "Descent", he admits out loud that he misses his humanity but that it's pointless to feel that because he can't get it back. How he sees it, he's been making the best of a bad situation.
He said it to Jeremy - "Life sucks either way."
He was the son that wasn't loved as much, he was the lover who wasn't enough by himself even though he was willing to do anything that Katherine wanted (and part of him knew it, whether or not he was willing to admit it - he might not have realized that Katherine didn't care at all, but he knew that she was with Stefan, too, back in the day - and we have Damon saying "I've been in love. It's painful, pointless, and overrated" in "Lost Girls", while he still thinks that he can get Katherine out of the tomb). Then he let Stefan (and his own hunger) convince him to turn, even though the only reason that he'd wanted it in the first place was (he believed) gone forever. And now there's Elena and he fell in love with her and it's horribly painful for pretty much everyone involved (and people like Jessica, who aren't involved but were just in the wrong place at the wrong time).
In "Rose", he admitted that he doesn't feel worthy of her. In "Descent", he admits that he doesn't think he can ever be worthy of her. "I can't be what she wants me to be." And for a man who was willing to transform himself into a monster for his last ladylove, the actual inability (or believed inability) to do that for Elena eats at him.
The thing that made being a vampire work for him was that he could turn off caring that life sucks. And he can't do that anymore. He cares and he can't quite handle that.
Not yet.
Stefan came to the show prepackaged as someone who had decided not to kill any more innocent people for the sake of his own hunger. With Damon, we're seeing all the steps, in ugly and bloody detail.
Speaking of Stefan, whoa, check out the lack of empathy for Rose. Someone suggested (![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
arabian?) that this might be stemming in part from his resumption of drinking human blood. Regardless, I found it intriguing because it was acknowledged in universe (by Alaric) which means that it's intentional, not bad writing. And that means that it might be going somewhere, which I await with interest.
He said it to Jeremy - "Life sucks either way."
He was the son that wasn't loved as much, he was the lover who wasn't enough by himself even though he was willing to do anything that Katherine wanted (and part of him knew it, whether or not he was willing to admit it - he might not have realized that Katherine didn't care at all, but he knew that she was with Stefan, too, back in the day - and we have Damon saying "I've been in love. It's painful, pointless, and overrated" in "Lost Girls", while he still thinks that he can get Katherine out of the tomb). Then he let Stefan (and his own hunger) convince him to turn, even though the only reason that he'd wanted it in the first place was (he believed) gone forever. And now there's Elena and he fell in love with her and it's horribly painful for pretty much everyone involved (and people like Jessica, who aren't involved but were just in the wrong place at the wrong time).
In "Rose", he admitted that he doesn't feel worthy of her. In "Descent", he admits that he doesn't think he can ever be worthy of her. "I can't be what she wants me to be." And for a man who was willing to transform himself into a monster for his last ladylove, the actual inability (or believed inability) to do that for Elena eats at him.
The thing that made being a vampire work for him was that he could turn off caring that life sucks. And he can't do that anymore. He cares and he can't quite handle that.
Not yet.
Stefan came to the show prepackaged as someone who had decided not to kill any more innocent people for the sake of his own hunger. With Damon, we're seeing all the steps, in ugly and bloody detail.
Speaking of Stefan, whoa, check out the lack of empathy for Rose. Someone suggested (
arabian?) that this might be stemming in part from his resumption of drinking human blood. Regardless, I found it intriguing because it was acknowledged in universe (by Alaric) which means that it's intentional, not bad writing. And that means that it might be going somewhere, which I await with interest.
no subject
I may not like the fact that Damon is back to killing people, but it is fascinating to watch him deal with things one step at a time and grapple with all of it in a way his brother refuses to.
*nods* Yes, Stefan is back to drinking human blood, which he hasn't done in so long that I wonder if his emotional growth is oh, a bit STUNTED. Damon has never stopped drinking human blood and so his development might be considered more 'normal' for a vampire.
Damon said it before 'He doesn't know what 'normal' is' therefore now that Stefan is doing more of what a vampire SHOULD be, in terms of diet, he is turning off his emotions a bit more.
I liked that Alaric was the one to say 'hey, you are being a jerk, and my boyfriend IS A HUGE JERK SO I WOULD KNOW.'
<3s writers for those details.
no subject
Yes. He's never been the person that people pick. Well, except Stefan. Stefan picks him.
But he needs to realize that people are growing quite affectionate of him. Like, he needs to be in a room with Stefan and Alaric at the same time and notice which one of them Alaric actually likes more.
no subject
Oh, wouldn't that be a moment? Damon taking in Alaric siding with him. He wouldn't gloat about it, more like he would be surprised and Alaric would maybe pick up on it, because he is Damon's BFF and they are very in tune with each other. *amused*
no subject
Yes! I think that's very much what we're seeing -- the journey to socialization, this between place where Damon can be a vampire but coexist more evenly with human society... a place that Stefan is was already in at the pilot, that viewers take for granted. Stefan likely also had stumbling blocks and wrong turns - which I want to seeeeeeee. PLEZ FLASHBACKS. *g*
Further on Stefan... I wasn't too surprised about his lack of empathy for Rose, tbh. I find Stefan rather intriguing that way. As much as both he and Damon associates with "the good brother", Stefan's... kind of morally complicated, but in a different way than Damon. He's irritated & bemused but not profoundly disturbed by Damon with the Tri-Delts in 1x15 and not at all horrified about the S1 Caroline situation like Elena is. (that's actually the first time I got intrigued by Stefan as a character -- how he's like, 'oh, Damon's not really *hurting her*, slightly dismissive, and then only being like, 'hey, I get it, this is Not Okay' when Elena challenges him). And when you think of Damon killing Zach - Stefan wasn't happy but his reaction was snarking about it to Damon and he didn't see to be broken up about it like Bonnie with her grandmother.
And as much has he does like Bonnie, his exchange with her is rather cold in the end of 1x22 (when he's all subtly threatening, 'I hope it doesn't come to that', re: her going after Damon, instead of responding, "oh no, Damon will behave" or "I'll stop Damon before he hurts anyone", etc.) We also see this moment of cold shut-down when he's all, "then we'd be having a very different different conversation" at Jeremy.
I think it's perhaps a characteristic of vampirism... this confined empathy. Like, certain people are very real to you, that you develop emotional attachments to, but everything else is background. Canon has established that vamps in a way are hyper-emotional -- everything is brighter, more than what you felt as a human... But maybe that's only for certain people and things that you REALLY give a shit about. And then other things are drowned out by that vibrancy.
no subject
Yes, please, on the flashbacks! Would love to see the show with Stefan and not just have the tell.
Further on Stefan... I wasn't too surprised about his lack of empathy for Rose, tbh. I find Stefan rather intriguing that way. As much as both he and Damon associates with "the good brother", Stefan's... kind of morally complicated, but in a different way than Damon.
Oh, yeah, it's totally not out of character for Stefan. I just find it endlessly hilarious after his conversation with Caroline in... was it 2x03?... where he tells her that the reason he eats bunnies is basically because he cares so much, man. I love Stefan, but that whole speech was the funniest piece of BS he's ever said.
But, yeah, Stefan will show those flashes of not having human morality any more either.
I think it's perhaps a characteristic of vampirism... this confined empathy. Like, certain people are very real to you, that you develop emotional attachments to, but everything else is background. Canon has established that vamps in a way are hyper-emotional -- everything is brighter, more than what you felt as a human... But maybe that's only for certain people and things that you REALLY give a shit about. And then other things are drowned out by that vibrancy.
That's an interesting thought. Hmm.
Stefan meta
I share your lolz. I don't think it's so much that he cares but that eating bunnies is just EASIER. It's been simpler and easier for Stefan to just not have any human blood then try to balance the lifestyle and control himself from becoming a destructive and self-destructive. When he can't avoid the ramifications any longer, with the ramping up of danger, then he changes his diet. No morality to it.
I heart him, but he's so... he has this mental picture of Who He Is that's so far off from the reality of Stefan. It's not that he doesn't give a shit, it's that he assumes that he's The Type of Person who would give a shit and likes to think he deeply cares more than he actively does in practice. Maybe it's part and parcel of his desire to be human/adopt humanity. He's very dependent on this image of himself, which he doesn't ever really question - and, to be fair, no one else ever makes him question it either.
I would say that for me Stefan's defining characteristic is more like... this AVOIDANCE and DISTANCE. It's not apathy, but in my opinion there's this distance in him where he's a step back from a situation or person. It's almost a knee jerk reaction with him. He was pretty detached and avoidant around Zach. He's in this almost constant state of detached bemusement around Damon, broken occasionally for when Damon shoves through his shell and reaches him emotionally (either positively or negatively). And there's this cautious detachment around Bonnie most of the time. And a warm bemused distance around Caroline.
He's close and empathetic around Elena, except when it deals with moments of conflict around Damon. Then if she's not endangered, he detaches and tries to close it down; AVOIDANCE -- 1x6 re: Caroline "not really hurting her", 1x15 re: "i hate him so much!" "there, there, right I know", 2x1, re: Jeremy "it's all Katherine's fault, and maybe it was an accident, ring!")
hmm, going back to 1x15, it's an interesting parade of Avoidance Stefan, who's been keeping Alaric at bay from Damon (because he cares so much about Alaric? lol.) and keeping Isobel news from Elena because... right, he wants to Make Sure of Things aka find a way to spin them right and close the uncomfortable discussion down (or prevent it at all).
All that said, these are things that make Stefan interesting to me and nothing wrong with his character. I vidded a little ode to shoulder shrugging, bemused Stefan with Damon here.
Re: Stefan meta
Re: Stefan meta
I agree so much. (this is also why, when I heard that apparently Elena and Stefan are famed for being a communicative and honest couple, I went... 'huh?' Stefan avoids the truth as much as he can get away with it. Elena is the one that pushes him toward openness and honesty)
Stefan is all about the spin. So much so that it's easy to buy into his view of things except when you realize that his actions don't actually reflect it very much (once one character is reassuring another character that they will tell them everything... for the fourth time...). This is why I really want to see how he actually decided to go on animal blood, because I just know Stefan was applying Stefan-spin to everything that he's said about the subject.
He's close and empathetic around Elena, except when it deals with moments of conflict around Damon. Then if she's not endangered, he detaches and tries to close it down; AVOIDANCE -- 1x6 re: Caroline "not really hurting her", 1x15 re: "i hate him so much!" "there, there, right I know", 2x1, re: Jeremy "it's all Katherine's fault, and maybe it was an accident, ring!")
Yeah. Stefan going immediately into "Let's justify and/or excuse Damon for trying to kill your baby brother!" mode with Elena in 2x01 is what made it clear to me that, yeah, Stefan loves Elena. But Damon is still >>> everything else for Stefan, just like he was back in 1864.
All that said, these are things that make Stefan interesting to me and nothing wrong with his character. I vidded a little ode to shoulder shrugging, bemused Stefan with Damon here.
I loved that!
Yeah, the complexies of Stefan's relationship with Damon is one of the things that I find most interesting about Stefan's character. And one of the things that I've been talking to
Re: Stefan meta
Part of what makes me like Damon more than Stefan is that Damon wants to think he's WORSE of a person than he really is, while Stefan wants to think he's a BETTER person than he is. And I find the former less annoying than the latter.
Re: Stefan meta
Just so! That's precisely how I feel about it.