butterfly | Doctor Who: S4 Spoilery Stuff

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dw: series 4

Doctor Who: S4 Spoilery Stuff

In light of the good news about Billie, I'm linking to my semi-recent post about Rose mentions in S3. Just to stand as a quick reminder that Rose's return hardly comes out of the blue (also, it reminded me that I never wrote the post about the many indirect references that the show made to Rose in S3 -- as I'm planning a rewatch of the show, I'll do that at some point before S4, though likely after Voyage of the Damned).

Plus, of course, there was the recent leak of The Stowaway, the song from this year's Christmas special. Shippy overload, really. Both of the previous Christmas songs were linked to the Doctor/Rose relationship, both in what happened on-screen and in what was said in the behind-the-scenes information. This song reuses words that were set-up in the previous songs and it plays very much as a progression of that storyline.

Song for Ten plays very much as the first blush of love and of realizing that that love is requited. "And I started to walk... pretty soon I will run, and I'll come running back to you. 'Cause I followed my star and that's what you are. I've had a merry time with you." (and then there's the second verse that was added post-Doomsday that made it very blatant that the song was about Rose)

Love Don't Roam is all about committment and longing and a deep, deep loss. "My body's tired of traveling and my heart don't wish to roam."

Each of these songs very much fits the general theme of the season to follow. S2 is about the Doctor's merry time with Rose (and then his resigned pain at losing her, as the added second verse shows). S3 is about how tired he is of doing the same things all over again (without her to make them feel shiny and new). About how his heart is a fixed point ("You took me in. You stole my heart. I cannot roam no more.") and how much that tears him up inside because she's gone ("all I have's this anguished heart, for you have vanished too").

The Stowaway, however, bursts at the seams with hope and determination.

"I'll run and I'll roam, I'll cover the ground. This Christmas I'll see you, I'll be around."

He isn't resigned to her loss anymore. He wants to fight it, to fight for her. Which is likely wrapped up (in part) in his "Utopia" epiphany. At the beginning of the season, he says that she's safe, she's happy, she's 'with her family'. He says the same sort of thing to Jack when he first talks about her being gone.

And then... we have the radiation room scene. "She's gone, Jack. She's not just living on a parallel world. She's trapped there. The walls have closed."

He finally admits that she isn't better off. 'Trapped' is not a word you use when someone is in a place that they'd want to be -- the Doctor has always known better than that, but couldn't stand to even think of it. Because his own pain was enough. To think of her pain, being stolen away not just from him but from the life that she adored and thrived on... I can understand why he wanted to live in denial. It's like what he said to Martha about Gallifrey -- he lied because he liked it, because it let him believe in a fairy tale where the brave girl's parents are reunited and she gets to be happy with them. Believing in that story was easier than living the truth that the love of his life was forever out of his reach and as unwilling about the separation as he was.

He reaches a place where he obviously wishes he could settle down (his offer to the Master which, like much of S3, broke my heart). He's tired of living the same life over and over. Tired of people swanning in and out of his life. Tired of talking about psychic paper and timeships and how everything works. His body's tired of traveling. That's made clear over and over in S3.

And now we hear that Rose is returning in S4. All of these things are leading somewhere -- this thread has been there from the very beginning of New Who ("I've never had a life like that," he says in "Father's Day"). Her family became his ("I don't do families," but he joined hers for Christmas and took her back there whenever she needed to go). She gave him light and hope when he needed it most. S3 made it clear that the Doctor/Rose love story hadn't ended with "Doomsday". I must admit that I'm very curious about the next chapter.

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Believing in that story was easier than living the truth that the love of his life was forever out of his reach and as unwilling about the separation as he was.
I think that's interesting in context of the theme of stories and words in series three.

What a wonderful and fantastic post. You've got me really looking forward to the upcoming season! I didn't watch S3 until the dvds came out, but I think I'll be jumping through hoops to keep up this time!

i'm also curious to see where this goes. :)

I understand someone at Outpost Gallifrey said that she'd thought the Doctor/Rose 'shippers were "grasping at straws" with "The Stowaway," but now thinks "maybe they have whole bales." Hee!

While I hope Rose is happy in her life in Pete's World--at least happier than the Doctor's been--she lost the man and the life that she loved. Of course she's going to have been broken a little by that. No doubt she's moved forward, because she's such a strong girl, but no doubt, too, that she still longs for the Doctor, and part of her always will.

From your mouth to RTD's ears!

S3 really was all about the stories (the lies) people tell, wasn't it? Saxon himself was a huge one and so, in many ways, was Martha's story about the Doctor. Then we have John Smith -- a story. There's the Carrionites, of course. They were all about the power of words.

Thanks!

I'm really looking forward to S4. Even before this, I was loving the idea of the Doctor and Donna traveling together, so hearing about Rose just sent me over the moon.

I'm hoping it stays in the next series. I have issues with how it was resolved - but I love the idea.

It looks to be an interesting journey.

All of these things are leading somewhere

Boy, it sure does seem like it, doesn't it? Like you said, this is something that's been there from S1 and has been carried through today.

I'm MORE than curious about the next chapter as well.

I understand someone at Outpost Gallifrey said that she'd thought the Doctor/Rose 'shippers were "grasping at straws" with "The Stowaway," but now thinks "maybe they have whole bales." Hee!

*giggles*

That's pretty cute, yeah.

While I hope Rose is happy in her life in Pete's World--at least happier than the Doctor's been--she lost the man and the life that she loved. Of course she's going to have been broken a little by that. No doubt she's moved forward, because she's such a strong girl, but no doubt, too, that she still longs for the Doctor, and part of her always will.

*nods*

Rose has a lot of inner strength and a confidence in herself and her abilities that she built up while traveling with the Doctor. I don't doubt that she's been less... reckless with herself than he has.

I love your icon!

Everything's "grasping at straws" to anti-shippers, which is ironic, considering how far-fetched some of them get in writing off some of those straws.

And if it leads where I'm hoping... well, to quote Romeo and Juliet, "All these woes shall serve for sweet discourses in our times to come."

In S3, it seemed as though Doctor Who was going to be a tragedy (a thwarted romance), but RTD may just be pulling a trick out of his hat.

Indeed!

It did feel a bit too easy at the end. Which made me sad because, like you say, good idea. So I hope that they continue on with that theme in the next series as well.

DW and Firefly go together like cookies and more cookies--there's just no end to the good. Matter of fact, I'm working on the last chapter of my DW/FF crossover "Out of Joint" tonight.

I love that icon because it's such a beautiful sentiment for Rose in that moment--she's heartbroken, yeah, but you can't take the sky from her.

He's tired of living the same life over and over. Tired of people swanning in and out of his life. Tired of talking about psychic paper and timeships and how everything works. His body's tired of traveling.

This, more than anything, is what had me really worried as s3 progressed: we could so clearly see that the Doctor was realizing what his life was without Rose, and he didn't like it. He didn't want to go back to the way things were before the Time War, before Rose. It took him the whole series to work out that he wanted more--the adventure of living a life day after day, having a family, dealing with domestics.

Like you, I'm curious and excited and nervous about what s4 holds. But if tradition holds, and the Christmas special song indicates the emotional thrust of the series, series 4 will be verrry interesting. And I can't wait!

The set up is there. I'd love to see Martha use her new found strength and Donna has already suffered through a story...

This, more than anything, is what had me really worried as s3 progressed: we could so clearly see that the Doctor was realizing what his life was without Rose, and he didn't like it. He didn't want to go back to the way things were before the Time War, before Rose. It took him the whole series to work out that he wanted more--the adventure of living a life day after day, having a family, dealing with domestics.

*nods*

He really did take a good, hard look at his life and was dissatisfied with it. Which thrilled me. I'm really happy that RTD took the Doctor's character, who mostly fits into the archetype of The Wanderer (http://www.mayyoubehappy.com/111thewanderer.html) and said, "well, yeah... what kind of effect would this life have on someone?" He gave the Doctor a character arc and growth and... all kinds of exciting things.

Like you, I'm curious and excited and nervous about what s4 holds. But if tradition holds, and the Christmas special song indicates the emotional thrust of the series, series 4 will be verrry interesting. And I can't wait!

Indeed. Every bit of new information about S4 is making me excited. The casting of Donna, The Stowaway, and now this news about Rose. It's enough to make a person giddy.

Yes. I'm really hoping that both Martha and Donna are essential to whatever goes down in series 4.

I really loved Martha at the end. I wish she'd realized sooner, but I'm glad she realizes she doesn't have to be anything but herself to be awesome. And her giving the Doctor her phone was awesome.

Yes! She was finally the woman that I'd been hoping to know.

I do understand why they couldn't have her be that woman sooner -- they wanted the Doctor's dark spiral -- but I was so thrilled to see her strength and her belief in herself in that moment. Martha doesn't need the Doctor's approval to be considered awesome. She just needs to be awesome.

All of these things are leading somewhere—this thread has been there from the very beginning of New Who (“I’ve never had a life like that,” he says in “Father’s Day”). Her family became his (“I don’t do families,” but he joined hers for Christmas and took her back there whenever she needed to go)… S3 made it clear that the Doctor/Rose love story hadn’t ended with “Doomsday”.

I think that about sums it up, yeah. <g>

I about died when someone over at T&C said (in a post about “The Stowaway”), “The Doctor is Odysseus. Seriously, so obvious when you look at it.” Like

dettiot said the other day, “I love it when people wake up to the logic.”

Yeah, it really does feel like it's all coming to something, doesn't it? I know many of us were saying that way back while S3 was airing, but Billie Piper coming back sure does give it extra weight.

Great post, as always. :D

I think it would have worked better if they gave her some more background and explained why she wanted to be a doctor and how she related to her family. I was spoiled by Rose, I guess.

We were all spoiled by Rose, clever Micky, and indomitable Jackie. We were given such a wonderful and loving introduction, not just to Rose, but to her whole family unit. And we didn't really get that with Martha (or with Donna).

I about died when someone over at T&C said (in a post about “The Stowaway”), “The Doctor is Odysseus. Seriously, so obvious when you look at it.” Like dettiot said the other day, “I love it when people wake up to the logic.”

Indeed. RTD's story arc is becoming very clear now.

They were all well-developed and the Doctor really connected with them all in different ways. Maybe we'll get Tosh (or was it Trish?) next series.

Thanks!

Yeah, it really does feel like it's all coming to something, doesn't it?

It really does. There's a purpose to RTD's story. He's going somewhere with all of this. It has a point. And that's very exciting.

I know many of us were saying that way back while S3 was airing, but Billie Piper coming back sure does give it extra weight.

It really does.

*squees*

Tish.

I hope so. I liked her, quite a bit, even though she didn't have all that much to do.

Mickey and Jackie each got strong character arcs of their own, reasons to exist outside of the Doctor and Rose's story.

So, I'm de-lurking to say that I love reading your Doctor Who posts, because you always take my random, flailing "OMG DOCTA/ROSE 4EVA!!!!!!!!!!11121!!!!" feelings, and make them make sense. All I could think when I heard the spoiler was "ROSE ROSE ROSE." The first thing I did, actually, was send a message to my friend that said just that. "ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE ROSE." And then you write this amazing, thoughtful post about the themes and character arcs and extrapolate the Doctor's emotional state from the Christmas special songs, and open my eyes to not just the awesomeness, but also the, err, "makessenseiness" of Rose coming back.

Kind of random, but I had to tell you that you're quite awesome.

I have to point out, as someone who watched the old series, that Rose isn't the first companion to be brought back.

Susan Foreman (the Doctor's granddaughter), Jamie McCrimmon, Zoe, Liz Shaw, Brigadier Alastair Lethbridge-Stewart, Captain Mike Yates, Sarah Jane Smith, K-9 and Romana II all came back for The Five Doctors.

Jamie McCrimmon also came back in The Two Doctors.

Sarah Jane Smith and K-9 also came back in School Reunion.

Jack Harkness came back as a companion in Utopia, after leaving at the end of The Parting of the Ways. (And then left again after The Last of the Time Lords

Donna Noble is returning for the fourth season after first meeting the Doctor in The Runaway Bride.

Freema Agyeman left at the end of The Last of the Time Lords but is coming back halfway through the fourth season.

Clearly, the door swings both ways. The Doctor's companions come and go...and come back. Rose is not unique in this.

I also have to say that while Billie Piper could come back AS Rose back from the other universe, she might reappear in flashbacks of Rose, in memories of Rose, in holograms of Rose, as an illusion of Rose created by the Doctor's enemies, as an Auton replica of Rose or as an android-Rose. (Most of which have been ways that other companions have either returned or appeared.)

I mention this because it's easy to think that what you want to happen, even long to happen, is what inevitably must happen. Hope, yeah. But just remember that this is Doctor Who. Plot twists and surprises can occur at any time.

Thank you very much!

And then you write this amazing, thoughtful post about the themes and character arcs and extrapolate the Doctor's emotional state from the Christmas special songs, and open my eyes to not just the awesomeness, but also the, err, "makessenseiness" of Rose coming back.

Yes! It's so very awesome, but it also makes story sense. And that is the ultimate joy.

Oh, yes, any number of things can happen. However, I don't believe that my speculation lacks substance.

Also, I'm not certain where you're getting the idea that I think Rose is the first companion to return to Who -- I don't say that anywhere in the post and (though I haven't seen all of Old Who) I did watch School Reunion and the end of S3, so was already aware of Sarah Jane, K-9 and Jack's return to the show.

Yes, you would have known about the ones you'd seen on the new series. I was just bringing them in as additional evidence that companions of the Doctor, both in the old show and in the new one, often come back--for a show or three--and then leave again. It's not uncommon.

Your enthusiasm about Billie Piper's return is understandable. I've even made arguments based on the significance of this or that song or piece of dialogue or symbol...not in the DW fandom, but in Harry Potter. And that's what worries me, because it seems to me that you might be building yourself up for a letdown, just as I did.

At this point, all we know is that Billie Piper is coming back as Rose for three episodes. We don't know anything about the story, or stories, yet.

I trust RTD. Not to keep Rose -- that's dependent on Billie's schedule and on the particular stories involved -- but I trust him to be emotionally true to the story of the Doctor. As long as the integrity of the characters remains intact, I'll be pleased with the story.

So far, he's shown himself to be invested in Rose's character integrity as well. I don't think he'll do her wrong, whatever he does.

Could he prove me wrong? Sure, suppose so. He hasn't yet. I generally trust someone until they do me wrong.

I had never realized the Doctor was weary of travel, was maybe longing for something, for once, that wasn't temporary, that was forever maybe, for something he could come back to or just never leave. But it makes perfect sense. He's lost Gallifrey, a place he never used to come home to before but chose to ran away from as fast as he could, but now it's gone, he's wishing he had appreciated it more when it still existed. And now he's searching for something that does last. He probably never expected Gallifrey to vanish, which is why he didn't often return to it - he assumed it'd be there whenever he needed it. But it's not, not anymore. He's lost Rose too, now, which is why in season three he's kind of without bounds (we've seen him more cruel than ever in S3, haven't we). He needs something to tie him down, to get him back down to earth. If not, he'll behave like the vengeful god the time vortex made him into. The thing that used to do that, was Gallifrey and the other Time Lords. He wasn't the only one. Now, it's Rose.

I love your analyses. They're Rose-centric, for one thing, but they're also just very good. You think about these things a lot.

Exactly. Gallifrey was his watchdog before. He didn't much like most of his people and wouldn't have chosen to spend time with them, but once they were gone, it shook him because the foundation of his universe had gone with them. He had to rework everything, because he'd based his self-definition on not being One of Them and that definition is meaningless if They are all dead.

I love your analyses. They're Rose-centric, for one thing, but they're also just very good. You think about these things a lot.

Thank you!

I really enjoy writing about Doctor Who and particularly about Rose. She's such a vivid character and it's such a rich show. There's no end of things to talk about.

Only time for a quick comment - YAAAYYYYY! Rose is coming back! Also, totally agree with all you've said above (as usual). Finally, what are the lyrics to the added verse of 'Song for Ten'?

This is a very, very thought-provoking post.

I really hope that you're right about The Stowaway being the emotional vein that S4 is going to run in. Because I love angsty Doctor, but I think we've had our fill of that in S3. I want Ten to be determined and happy and willing to stare down black holes in order to get Rose back.

As for the Doctor finally becoming tired of his life - I totally agree. I'd never seen it like that before, but now that you've pointed it out and I can see where you're coming from. He is tired - once of the most heartwrenching moments of S3 (and there were quite a few!) is when he screams for the Daleks just to kill him and be done with it. If that isn't the picture of a lonely, tired man, sick of everyone leaving him, then I'm not sure what is.

(BTW, mind if I friend you?)

He gave the Doctor a character arc and growth and... all kinds of exciting things.

And that kind of thing DOESN'T HAPPEN to main characters. I realized that with Buffy--she would have these "epiphanies" at the end of each season, but when the new season started, you didn't get the sense that she had really changed, because she was back to being the same. Logically, your main character can't change that much, because it affects the whole show. But RTD has been inspired to look at the Doctor with new, modern eyes, to take this character and make him real and well-rounded and true, without changing the whole tenor of the show. (Although I'm sure Old Schoolers would disagree with me.)

I've been excited about s4 since they announced that Donna would be the companion, as I think Donna is awesome and represented a great approach for the show to take. And my excitement levels have just been rising and rising over the past few months, until now, when I'm wising I could pull a modified Rip Van Winkle and sleep until the s4 premiere, because I don't think I can take much more! :-)

*cheers over Rose*

Thank you!

And the added lyrics for SfT are as follows:

So have a good life
Do it for me
Make me so proud
Like you want me to be
Wherever you are
I'm thinking of you, oceans apart
I want you to know

Well, I woke up today and you're on the other side
Our time will never come again
But if you can still dream
Close your eyes it will seem
That you can see me now and then

Thank you!

I really hope that you're right about The Stowaway being the emotional vein that S4 is going to run in. Because I love angsty Doctor, but I think we've had our fill of that in S3. I want Ten to be determined and happy and willing to stare down black holes in order to get Rose back.

Of course, I can't be absolutely certain, but the evidence is adding up that way.

As for the Doctor finally becoming tired of his life - I totally agree. I'd never seen it like that before, but now that you've pointed it out and I can see where you're coming from. He is tired - once of the most heartwrenching moments of S3 (and there were quite a few!) is when he screams for the Daleks just to kill him and be done with it. If that isn't the picture of a lonely, tired man, sick of everyone leaving him, then I'm not sure what is.

Exactly, yes.

BTW, mind if I friend you?

I don't mind at all. I enjoy getting new friends.

All of these things are leading somewhere -- this thread has been there from the very beginning of New Who

It has, hasn't it? I want to read RTD's tell-all in about twenty years and figure out if this was all a-purpose or inspired improvisation. I am a bit nervous, especially given all the nay-saying, but RTD has done a wonderful job with new Who and D/R to date and I have to believe he's got good things in mind. The man knows how to stay true to his characters.

But RTD has been inspired to look at the Doctor with new, modern eyes, to take this character and make him real and well-rounded and true, without changing the whole tenor of the show.

He really has -- destroying Gallifrey really did enable him to start the Doctor on a very definite character arc that has changed the thrust of the character from the Rebel/Wanderer to a man without a home (in search of one). The element of choice that he always had before is just gone. That should change him profoundly and because RTD understands people, it does.

I've been excited about s4 since they announced that Donna would be the companion, as I think Donna is awesome and represented a great approach for the show to take. And my excitement levels have just been rising and rising over the past few months, until now, when I'm wising I could pull a modified Rip Van Winkle and sleep until the s4 premiere, because I don't think I can take much more!

The news really does keep getting better and better.

It has, hasn't it? I want to read RTD's tell-all in about twenty years and figure out if this was all a-purpose or inspired improvisation.

A bit of both, I expect. He had a plan -- destroy Gallifrey to find out who the Doctor was in the wake of that. Created Rose to comfort the Doctor... when Billie and Chris had chemistry beyond what he was hoping for, age up Rose and shift the paternal longing of her character entirely to her real father (which likely happened before anything was filmed -- I bet the sparks were obvious even in the initial reads) because I bet they were planning on doing a bit of a Seven & Ace at the very start. Season One gets written and he knows that CE is only a one series Doctor, so convince Billie (who turns out to be an amazing actor) to stay for series two, to break in the new Doctor... who she also has phenomenal chemistry with (a pattern is developing). Convince her (or she decides) to stay until the end of S2, because now he's fallen head-over-heels in love with this pairing and so has nearly everyone on his staff.

He wants Billie to be able to come back at some point, so he leaves the door open for Rose and keeps her alive in the Doctor's heart. And Billie's so successful outside of Who and it's brilliant and he's so happy for her and it makes him want her back even more.

*cough*

... that's how I imagine it happening, at least.

Everytime I get nervous about how RTD will handle Rose, your meta always cheers me up! Thanks for that! I honestly hope that Rose and the Doctor meet at the end of the season and aren't over eachother. Not only does it null the choice that Rose made in Doomsday to stay with him over her family, it also nulls the Doctor's pain in season 3 (kind of a "Oh, sorry Rose. Already got over you in series 3. You should've shown up then."). Plus, The Stowaway indicates a happy ending, you know? =)

I think the only thing that worries me is how much RTD likes Joss. And as we know, Joss always ends his couples in tragedy (Buffy/Angel, Willow/Tara, Angel/Cordelia, Buffy/Spike, Anya/Xander etc.), I hope he doesn't follow suit...again. I don't think I can take another Doomsday. And after LOTTL, I'm just hoping he doesn't screw this up. =(

Your Doctor Who posts always cheer me up, such a thorough analysis, I love how you summed up the songs! I knew the lyrics in "The Stowaway" weren't like that for nothing, that would be, you know, WEIRD.

All of these things are leading somewhere -- this thread has been there from the very beginning of New Who ("I've never had a life like that," he says in "Father's Day"). Her family became his ("I don't do families," but he joined hers for Christmas and took her back there whenever she needed to go). She gave him light and hope when he needed it most. S3 made it clear that the Doctor/Rose love story hadn't ended with "Doomsday". I must admit that I'm very curious about the next chapter.

Oh, indeed, me too!

Furthermore, I was always considering the scene where he sits on the roof with Donna as a further proof that Rose's family became his:

THE DOCTOR (nodding in the direction of the Powell Estate)
I spent Christmas Day just over there, the Powell Estate. With this... family. My friend, she had this family. Well, they were...

He pauses for a moment, lost in thought.

THE DOCTOR
Still... gone now.

It feels like he almost said: "Well, they were... my family."

This scene also ties closely to the Christmas dinner scene because it's Christmas again and he must have remembered the dinner while being "lost in thought"...

That's what this scene has always been to me, anyway.

(A piece of TRB's transcript courtesy of who-transcripts.atspace.com.)

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Doctor Who: S4 Spoilery Stuff

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“don’t you dare make this place domestic”

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Re: “don’t you dare make this place domestic”

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