Could it be argued, then, that Andrew -- who wants to be a follower, to fit in with and be accepted by some idealized group or individual -- is much more other-oriented (and therefore possibly shame-oriented) than Wesley, who breaks with the group and does his lone ranger thing to save Connor, living according to his own code and only RESENTING his friends' failure to respect that, rather than being shamed by their disapproval?
It could, but though Andrew longs to be accepted, he doesn't ever try to change himself to fit - whereas Wesley is constantly shifting and changing. Andrew wants to be accepted for himself, Wesley wants respected and is willing to make some sacrifices in order to be.
shame says "I am wrong, bad, or deficient," while guilt says "I DID something that was wrong, bad, or deficient."
Right, yes, exactly. And in a sense, Angel vs Spike is also shame versus guilt. Spike saw the dirty things that he did, Angel saw what a dirty thing he was. Though it's much more complicated than that - which is why I love this show so much.
Re: deficiency in oneself or in one's actions?
It could, but though Andrew longs to be accepted, he doesn't ever try to change himself to fit - whereas Wesley is constantly shifting and changing. Andrew wants to be accepted for himself, Wesley wants respected and is willing to make some sacrifices in order to be.
shame says "I am wrong, bad, or deficient," while guilt says "I DID something that was wrong, bad, or deficient."
Right, yes, exactly. And in a sense, Angel vs Spike is also shame versus guilt. Spike saw the dirty things that he did, Angel saw what a dirty thing he was. Though it's much more complicated than that - which is why I love this show so much.