I love your episode commentaries SO MUCH. They always make me think.
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Since John's reappearance I've thought back to this scene many a time, wondering what was going on in Katherine's head. I think for now I've decided that it was a display of power and a punishment for including the Salvatores (or perhaps just Stefan) in their mass vampire take down. I don't think Stefan was on the menu, and she was pissed and vengeful about the plan alteration and wanted to prove she is fucking SERIOUS BUSINESS. (and dude, John, HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW THAT?) Since he's still useful, and Isobel might get squirrely, Katherine decides to just horribly maim.
Yeah, Katherine was making a point to him. Actually, hmm. I wonder if Pearl got her ideas about how to deal with threats from Katherine (Pearl tries the 'stab you in the stomach to show you how serious I am' thing with Frederick) but doesn't understand that whether or not you do that is based on the personality of the person you're dealing with.
I know, right? Even Stefan gets in on it, hilariously. (actually, I think Stefan might be the first person to go there. I've always found it fascinating that for such a supposed "Dread Triangle", from the start Stefan's relied on his belief that Damon ~feels for Elena. It's a boundary he quickly begins taking for granted. The few moments when he lose sight of that are basically a sign from the show that Stefan's irrational or full of shit (one of my biggest arguments that Stefan didn't really WANT to put Damon out of the picture in 1x5/1x6 is not just how he doesn't act until pushed to it by Zack (like he couldn't have just gone out and acquired enough vervain to dose Damon before) or that he spends days lurking around Damon's cage, but also how freakin' easily he gave to in returning the ring. oh yeah, Damon threatened to go kill Elena. RIGHT LIKE THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. In all other cases, Stefan never seems really convinced of that being a viable threat, instead of just Damon trash talking like an asshole.)
Stefan totally is - he's arguing that Damon won't hurt Elena as far back as 1x03. And, yeah, I don't think he's ever honestly thought Elena was in physical danger from Damon or in danger of being terrorized - he doesn't think to give vervain to Elena to give to her family and friends until there's a new vampire in town. He did worry about Damon compelling Elena at first (valid worry), but that's a different story and more rooted in Stefan's relationship stuff.
Absolutely! It was SO self-destructive. And I completely agree that that false moment of emotional catharsis has very much informed Damon's actions throughout the season. "I wanted it to be real." --> that is a key telling Damon statement for me. And everything in this episode is about destroying that for Damon.
Sort of 'If I can't have what I want, then I don't want anything'. Destructive and immature and very, very hurt. He wanted it to be real and when Elena made him feel like none of it was, it was very much a breaking point. And he obviously still hasn't recovered from 2x01 (which is almost... funny, because the people that he hurt have - Jeremy and Elena have both reconciled to him).
I find it interesting that the relationship that comes out of this episode without damage is his with Stefan, and I think that's because Stefan ultimately 'gets real' with Damon, making that implicit promise you mention, and thus showing him that what's been having for the last couple months & happened that previous night (Stefan coming through for Damon) WAS real. That was the ONE THING that wasn't a lie. And so that also informs Damon's relationship with his brother this season, and makes him more receptive to finding a balance with him and finally hearing Stefan's apology.
Yeah, Stefan drops the pretense of 'I can barely stand you' that he's been putting up at various points in S1. Stefan is willing to be open and honest. Their relationship does some beautiful things in S2.
Stefan has this thing where he'll go completely unhinged at Damon for like 20 minutes and then calm down and be over it. Elena's request helps, but I don't think it's just that. (wonder if the initial reactions are supposed to be just Stefan, or vamp instincts? we certainly see both Caroline and Damon have extreme reactions to stimuli) And, yeah, the unhinging factor here was probably some Katherine + Damon + Elena. A complicated picture...
Very complicated.
So, hmm. Did Katherine know that the Gilbert device would go off on Richard? I LOVE THIS THEORY.
It makes a lot of sense when I think about it.
Absolutely. That that's something that both Stefan and Elena underestimate again, when they first assume he might be going off completely the rails (oh, what dastardly things could Damon be up to?! cut to: Damon fishing for information about new potential supernatural threat to the town). I'm bemused that Damon's immediate reaction could be seen as: go be a hero. I don't think he consciously decides this at all, but he basically goes on a crusade after the Lockwoods and will not give up the idea that Mason is a threat to be neutralized. I've long wondered if this is guilt about Jeremy seeping in -- Damon subconsciously wants to redeem that action, and throws himself into protect/attack mode. It's an easy fix -- point me in the direction of something I can kill. Hey, helping to go after Logan and then Noah in S1 was what started Stelana depending on him.
lol, yes. That was hilarious.
And, yeah, it makes sense. Especially in light of what Damon says in 2x03 - "you hated me before and we became friends", so he's trying to repeat what he thinks caused that to happen before (consciously or unconsciously).
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♥
Since John's reappearance I've thought back to this scene many a time, wondering what was going on in Katherine's head. I think for now I've decided that it was a display of power and a punishment for including the Salvatores (or perhaps just Stefan) in their mass vampire take down. I don't think Stefan was on the menu, and she was pissed and vengeful about the plan alteration and wanted to prove she is fucking SERIOUS BUSINESS. (and dude, John, HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW THAT?) Since he's still useful, and Isobel might get squirrely, Katherine decides to just horribly maim.
Yeah, Katherine was making a point to him. Actually, hmm. I wonder if Pearl got her ideas about how to deal with threats from Katherine (Pearl tries the 'stab you in the stomach to show you how serious I am' thing with Frederick) but doesn't understand that whether or not you do that is based on the personality of the person you're dealing with.
I know, right? Even Stefan gets in on it, hilariously. (actually, I think Stefan might be the first person to go there. I've always found it fascinating that for such a supposed "Dread Triangle", from the start Stefan's relied on his belief that Damon ~feels for Elena. It's a boundary he quickly begins taking for granted. The few moments when he lose sight of that are basically a sign from the show that Stefan's irrational or full of shit (one of my biggest arguments that Stefan didn't really WANT to put Damon out of the picture in 1x5/1x6 is not just how he doesn't act until pushed to it by Zack (like he couldn't have just gone out and acquired enough vervain to dose Damon before) or that he spends days lurking around Damon's cage, but also how freakin' easily he gave to in returning the ring. oh yeah, Damon threatened to go kill Elena. RIGHT LIKE THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. In all other cases, Stefan never seems really convinced of that being a viable threat, instead of just Damon trash talking like an asshole.)
Stefan totally is - he's arguing that Damon won't hurt Elena as far back as 1x03. And, yeah, I don't think he's ever honestly thought Elena was in physical danger from Damon or in danger of being terrorized - he doesn't think to give vervain to Elena to give to her family and friends until there's a new vampire in town. He did worry about Damon compelling Elena at first (valid worry), but that's a different story and more rooted in Stefan's relationship stuff.
Absolutely! It was SO self-destructive. And I completely agree that that false moment of emotional catharsis has very much informed Damon's actions throughout the season. "I wanted it to be real." --> that is a key telling Damon statement for me. And everything in this episode is about destroying that for Damon.
Sort of 'If I can't have what I want, then I don't want anything'. Destructive and immature and very, very hurt. He wanted it to be real and when Elena made him feel like none of it was, it was very much a breaking point. And he obviously still hasn't recovered from 2x01 (which is almost... funny, because the people that he hurt have - Jeremy and Elena have both reconciled to him).
I find it interesting that the relationship that comes out of this episode without damage is his with Stefan, and I think that's because Stefan ultimately 'gets real' with Damon, making that implicit promise you mention, and thus showing him that what's been having for the last couple months & happened that previous night (Stefan coming through for Damon) WAS real. That was the ONE THING that wasn't a lie. And so that also informs Damon's relationship with his brother this season, and makes him more receptive to finding a balance with him and finally hearing Stefan's apology.
Yeah, Stefan drops the pretense of 'I can barely stand you' that he's been putting up at various points in S1. Stefan is willing to be open and honest. Their relationship does some beautiful things in S2.
Stefan has this thing where he'll go completely unhinged at Damon for like 20 minutes and then calm down and be over it. Elena's request helps, but I don't think it's just that. (wonder if the initial reactions are supposed to be just Stefan, or vamp instincts? we certainly see both Caroline and Damon have extreme reactions to stimuli) And, yeah, the unhinging factor here was probably some Katherine + Damon + Elena. A complicated picture...
Very complicated.
So, hmm. Did Katherine know that the Gilbert device would go off on Richard?
I LOVE THIS THEORY.
It makes a lot of sense when I think about it.
Absolutely. That that's something that both Stefan and Elena underestimate again, when they first assume he might be going off completely the rails (oh, what dastardly things could Damon be up to?! cut to: Damon fishing for information about new potential supernatural threat to the town). I'm bemused that Damon's immediate reaction could be seen as: go be a hero. I don't think he consciously decides this at all, but he basically goes on a crusade after the Lockwoods and will not give up the idea that Mason is a threat to be neutralized. I've long wondered if this is guilt about Jeremy seeping in -- Damon subconsciously wants to redeem that action, and throws himself into protect/attack mode. It's an easy fix -- point me in the direction of something I can kill. Hey, helping to go after Logan and then Noah in S1 was what started Stelana depending on him.
lol, yes. That was hilarious.
And, yeah, it makes sense. Especially in light of what Damon says in 2x03 - "you hated me before and we became friends", so he's trying to repeat what he thinks caused that to happen before (consciously or unconsciously).