My problem is that I didn't see character growth. If anything, I saw the Doctor grow bitter and walled off, and not just with Martha. His response to Jack is cold and flat as well.
He did grow bitter and walled off for quite a while -- character growth does not, to me, imply constant forward progression, which I would find highly unrealistic. The man was still in a state for mourning for the majority of the series. Of course, he's bitter and closed off -- Rose is, as he reminded us in Utopia, trapped in a parallel universe and the walls have closed.
But I think what gets my goat most is the notion that there's "in love" that's qualitatively different than other forms of love.
Qualitatively? That seems to go against the whole nature of love to me. Love... can't be measured so easily. The Doctor loved Rose intensely. Would I say that he loved her more than he loved anyone else in his life? I'd say, rather, that the question is meaningless. Does he love Rose more than he loved Susan? Does my mother love me more than my brother? Questions like that don't seem to lead anywhere helpful. Love fills people up -- my mother's love for me enhances her love for my brother, and vice versa. The more love you give, the more love that you have to give.
Do I think that the Doctor is 'in love' with Rose? Yes, as much as any fictional character can be in love with another. Every form of love is unique because it is defined by the people in the relationship. The Doctor's love for Rose and her love for him are not identical, either. My brother doesn't love me the same way that I love him.
That's just -- well, let's say that's a naive view for a guy who's been around a millenium. It's...reductive.
You really do seem to be defining growth as 'moving towards the way that I (parrotfish) view the world', as though you are the only person who has a clear view of what love, life, and everything are all about and you are the only person who can define 'maturity' or 'love'.
I don't pretend that I know all (or even any) of the answers. I only know my interpretation of what I see on the screen. What I see the Doctor doing, the choices that I see him make, and what I think of those choices.
It would because it implies a greater level of importance, attachment, caring, concern, involvement, affection, etc. etc. for this companion over all others, from the Doctor's POV.
Do you believe that all romantic love trivializes all other love? Does my romantic love mean that my love for my family and my friends means nothing?
Pair-bonding is a concept as old as the written language (older). The notion that two people make each other stronger, that they're more together than just the sum of their parts. Love isn't a box (or, at least, I don't believe it should be). Love is freedom. Love is wings.
and two...
He did grow bitter and walled off for quite a while -- character growth does not, to me, imply constant forward progression, which I would find highly unrealistic. The man was still in a state for mourning for the majority of the series. Of course, he's bitter and closed off -- Rose is, as he reminded us in Utopia, trapped in a parallel universe and the walls have closed.
But I think what gets my goat most is the notion that there's "in love" that's qualitatively different than other forms of love.
Qualitatively? That seems to go against the whole nature of love to me. Love... can't be measured so easily. The Doctor loved Rose intensely. Would I say that he loved her more than he loved anyone else in his life? I'd say, rather, that the question is meaningless. Does he love Rose more than he loved Susan? Does my mother love me more than my brother? Questions like that don't seem to lead anywhere helpful. Love fills people up -- my mother's love for me enhances her love for my brother, and vice versa. The more love you give, the more love that you have to give.
Do I think that the Doctor is 'in love' with Rose? Yes, as much as any fictional character can be in love with another. Every form of love is unique because it is defined by the people in the relationship. The Doctor's love for Rose and her love for him are not identical, either. My brother doesn't love me the same way that I love him.
That's just -- well, let's say that's a naive view for a guy who's been around a millenium. It's...reductive.
You really do seem to be defining growth as 'moving towards the way that I (parrotfish) view the world', as though you are the only person who has a clear view of what love, life, and everything are all about and you are the only person who can define 'maturity' or 'love'.
I don't pretend that I know all (or even any) of the answers. I only know my interpretation of what I see on the screen. What I see the Doctor doing, the choices that I see him make, and what I think of those choices.
It would because it implies a greater level of importance, attachment, caring, concern, involvement, affection, etc. etc. for this companion over all others, from the Doctor's POV.
Do you believe that all romantic love trivializes all other love? Does my romantic love mean that my love for my family and my friends means nothing?
Pair-bonding is a concept as old as the written language (older). The notion that two people make each other stronger, that they're more together than just the sum of their parts. Love isn't a box (or, at least, I don't believe it should be). Love is freedom. Love is wings.