butterfly: (Reporter -- Lois Lane)
[personal profile] butterfly
Smallville: Bloodline

This show has been so awesome this season. Strong characterization on Clark and Lois, wonderful budding relationship as well. And Chloe is getting a powerful plotline of her very own. Bringing Oliver back has worked so well, and I've been loving Tess Mercer's character.

All in all, very fab.

I was considering having deeper thoughts, but then got distracted by... well, let's just say that as much as I loved SV? That's about how much I was hating SPN tonight.


Supernatural


There were, admittedly, good things about this most recent episode of SPN.

However, I found all of them to be overshadowed by the character of Hope being raped for a solid month and none of the cast seeming to notice that what was happening. "What's wrong with getting what we want?" the guy asks. It wasn't what Hope wanted. You never asked her. And the 'boys' never make any mention of it in the episode. When he asks why he should take the wish back, they tell him it's because the wishes go south and they say that the relationship of her 'loving him more than anything' isn't functional.

No, it isn't, because it's rape. A whole entire month of rape.

It's the AprilBot/Warren-Katrina plotline from BtVS with none of the awareness of what taking away that kind of willingness actually means. It's rape.

How can Sam be aware that perving on naked women in the shower is disgusting and wrong (and be willing to say it) and not recognize that about the central 'relationship' of the episode (even calling it that gives me a sick feeling, because that's about as far from a real relationship as you can get)?

You know what? Fuck it. Fuck this show. I wanted to keep it giving chances to redeem itself, in large part because my roommates love it, but...

Fuck it. I'm not watching this shit anymore. I'm going to stick to shows where women actually get counted as people.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 08:51 am (UTC)
ext_18168: (Default)
From: [identity profile] leviathan101.livejournal.com
I knew there was a reason that I don't watch Supernatural. Yikes. Totally can't do it after reading your thoughts.

I'm going to stick to shows where women actually get counted as people.

I'm 100% behind you on that one.

And I agree wholeheartedly about Smallville this season. The show needed a change and a change of cast really helped. I'm loving Clark and Lois! Chloe's storyline is very interesting and a bit scary and I also like Davis.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 09:00 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I knew there was a reason that I don't watch Supernatural. Yikes. Totally can't do it after reading your thoughts.

Don't. Yeah. I kept thinking that it had to get better (back to when it was only normal 'horror' levels of sexism!) and... no. Once it falls into blatant woman-hate, it never climbs out again. I'm frustrated at this because I really do love the relationship between the two brothers -- it's well-written and feels natural and epic and tragically great. But if I have to take writers who don't recognize that women have minds and lives of their own, then no compensation is great enough.

And I agree wholeheartedly about Smallville this season. The show needed a change and a change of cast really helped. I'm loving Clark and Lois! Chloe's storyline is very interesting and a bit scary and I also like Davis.

Yes! The cast shake-up worked so well. And I love Lois so much (great example of a very strong female character!). Davis has been a neat new addition as well. Chloe has been really awesome this season.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 08:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-berry.livejournal.com
So, so, SO much word re: SPN. I'm so fucking angry about it, and the fact that I feel like a broken record on this score probably says it all. There shouldn't be ANY instances of this shit, let alone multiple ones.

And yeah, I don't blame you at all re: tuning out. I'm trying to keep watching, because there is stuff I still like, but I'm finding it really hard to care about the good right now. And given the storylines that look like coming up in the near future, I can't help but suspect that I'm going to be following your example. (I'd like to think that I could do that, and still enjoy the fannish stuff, but, um. Then I consider the part where I can count on one hand the posts I've seen that even noticed the problem with this ep, versus multiple people talking about wanting to hug the 'poor guy'. So, you know. Perhaps not.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 09:05 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
So, so, SO much word re: SPN. I'm so fucking angry about it, and the fact that I feel like a broken record on this score probably says it all. There shouldn't be ANY instances of this shit, let alone multiple ones.

Yes. The fact that this is the second instance of 'funny rape' on the show ("Simon Said") is... horrifying. The fact that so many people watching the show aren't even mentioning it is possibly even more so. I've seen a couple of people mention the situation with Hope, but most reviews haven't even mentioned her character. I can't even express how deeply that bothers me.

And it makes the recent dancing around the 'Are Ruby and Sam sleeping together?' issue even more disgusting. Because now we have show-based evidence that they don't think it counts as rape if the woman doesn't remember afterwards.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 10:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-berry.livejournal.com
Honestly? I look at the number of people in fandom who didn't think it was an issue in Simon Said, and the number of people who clearly didn't even pick up on it this time (I've STILL seen more sympathy for him than anger over Hope), and I just. I feel horrible that people are proving the writers right: people DON'T think rape is rape, they don't notice what happened to Hope, and/or they don't care.

Meanwhile, that poll I linked to yesterday is at 50/50 over whether sleeping with someone who can't possibly consent is rape. Because clearly, that's a real brain teaser. Urgh.

And it makes the recent dancing around the 'Are Ruby and Sam sleeping together?' issue even more disgusting. Because now we have show-based evidence that they don't think it counts as rape if the woman doesn't remember afterwards.

Yeah, I REALLY cannot imagine the Sam/Ruby stuff is heading to any place that won't make me tune out for good. Frankly, I'm finding the coy comments in interviews off-putting enough. (Yes, writers, lets tease the viewers with the ossibility that a woman is getting raped. That's totally appropriate!) The part where I suspect they are not only going to go there, but are going to expect me to feel sorry for Sam over it? Askjalkdkl. No.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 10:20 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Honestly? I look at the number of people in fandom who didn't think it was an issue in Simon Said, and the number of people who clearly didn't even pick up on it this time (I've STILL seen more sympathy for him than anger over Hope), and I just. I feel horrible that people are proving the writers right: people DON'T think rape is rape, they don't notice what happened to Hope, and/or they don't care.

I'm... not sure which of those three options would depress me more. Oh, fuck, they're all pretty damn depressing.

Meanwhile, that poll I linked to yesterday is at 50/50 over whether sleeping with someone who can't possibly consent is rape. Because clearly, that's a real brain teaser. Urgh.

Yeah, I went over there and voted and had to back out quickly when I started looking at the comments. Some weren't bad, but others...

And the idea that the rape factor in Sam/Ruby wouldn't count because Kripke didn't mean it that way just frustrates me so much.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 10:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-berry.livejournal.com
And the idea that the rape factor in Sam/Ruby wouldn't count because Kripke didn't mean it that way just frustrates me so much.

I KNOW. Arkdlfjslk. Plus? That "Dean's a dick!" thing made it pretty clear just how hooked into fandom he is. So it's not like he can have avoided all the talk (from 4.01 onwards) about why it would be rape. If the show DOES go there? It would mean he's had it explained to him in great detail, and STILL decided that it doesn't count. (So, him and half of fandom, then.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 11:29 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I KNOW. Arkdlfjslk. Plus? That "Dean's a dick!" thing made it pretty clear just how hooked into fandom he is.

Yes. The fact that he must leap on to explain how Dean isn't a dick but doesn't give a damn about the rape issues speaks volumes. Really, really depressing volumes.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 01:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
There was rape and the story didn't think that was a bad thing?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 07:46 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
The show didn't even acknowledge that it was rape. They made it obvious that she'd been sleeping with him for a month because of his wish that she 'love him more than anything' but none of the other characters mentioned that she deserved free will and the right to choose the guy she wanted to be with. The closest they got was that the relationship wasn't 'functional'.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 07:51 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 03:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sexyfemalealien.livejournal.com
Wait, this episode that people are calling "funny" and "light-hearted" and "awesome" was about some poor woman getting raped?

*headdesk*

And here I was having a scrap of faith in humanity this week. Thank you for keeping me from actually watching this show.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 07:48 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Wait, this episode that people are calling "funny" and "light-hearted" and "awesome" was about some poor woman getting raped?

Yeah. The originating wish was by some guy who wished that Hope (who had never noticed him before) would 'love him more than anything' and the show made it very obvious that there was a sexual relationship. But I guess as long as no one says the word 'rape', it's all fun and games.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 08:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sexyfemalealien.livejournal.com
Yuck. I'll just keep on not watching that show. I appreciate the sacrifice you've made in watching it and letting me know I'm only missing upsetting things.

Hey, got any movie recs for me? My collection is 95% sci-fi and I thought I'd try something without any spaceships or robots or superheroes for once, but I'm too lazy to wade through the selection on my own. What my collection is specifically lacking is romance. All of my spaceship-free movies seem to feature relationships in which one or both parties die, and I'm not always in the mood for the angst. On the other hand, I tend to get wildly impatient with romantic comedies, because they never seem to ring true. By the time the couple gets together, I always hate them both for being so bloody stupid as to not communicate properly for the last hour and a half.

Okay, maybe finding a movie I won't hate is a bit too huge of a task for anyone, and I'll just go away now . . .

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 09:35 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Hmm. Let me think on that movie thing...

do you like musicals?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-08 12:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sexyfemalealien.livejournal.com
I like musicals in the theatre, but I've got that snob thing going where I never like the movie as well, and I have fairly regular access to good theatre where I live. I did quite like Madonna's Evita, probably because I felt obligated to hate it, and therefore got annoyed by the obligation, and rebelled. (I did mention I'm nuts, right?)

I bought Phantom of the Opera on dvd fairly recently, and haven't managed to make myself watch it. Maybe I should.

Okay, some of my favorite movies, for a point of reference, are: Serenity, Ark of Truth, Spider-Man (I, II, and III), Star Wars, Rise of the Silver Surfer, Fantastic Four, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Independence Day, Men in Black, Galaxy Quest, X-Men, The Princess Bride, Ladyhawke, Lost and Delirious, Like Water For Chocolate, Brokeback Mountain, The Calamari Wrestler, Imagine Me & You, Quick Change, and Mystery Men.

I don't really have any movies that I love the way I love my television shows, though, except the movies that directly relate to television shows, or my comic book movies. I like getting attached to tv characters.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 04:20 pm (UTC)
ext_6866: (Default)
From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com
Wow--I only saw the second half and I just assumed that was the whole argument the boys were making against what the guy was doing!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-07 07:50 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I know! I was hoping that someone would say that the reason the guy's wish was wrong was because Hope is a person, but they never did. Instead, it was all 'wishes go south' (using very strong boy as an illustration) and that it's not a 'functional' relationship and can't be what he really wanted. It was all about him and not at all about her, just like his wish in the first place.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-08 12:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] demeter918.livejournal.com
Re: Supernatural.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU. I was so creeped out by last night's Supernatural. The ending made me furious; the camera panning out on that stupid guy and we're supposed to feel sad that she doesn't remember him. I couldn't believe it; I kept waiting for Sam to say something, anything to at least indicate that the writers knew that this was rape. Nothing, all we get is a Sam looking sympathetically at the asshole and Hope with (hopefully) no memories of the last month and the fact that she was sleeping with a guy she didn't even know. Is no one seeing the similarities between that situation and a rape drug? I do, and it sickens me.

I don't even know why I'm still watching this show. It was starting to annoy me last season, but I keep wishing Jo and Ellen will come back.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-08 05:40 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Yeah, I gave it a second chance this season because I found out that Ruby wasn't dead. And... I'm so regretting that choice. I would have been much happier not having ever watched this episode of television.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-08 08:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] demeter918.livejournal.com
I had gone in without much of a clue on which direction they were taking this season, so I was kind of surprised to see Ruby again; I liked the former Ruby a lot more, so I'm also disappointed. And still no Ellen and Jo. I think, if they were to bring the two back, I would be more interested again. But if not, and with the current way their plotlines go and how they portray female characters... it's hard to keep watching.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-08 02:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sexyfemalealien.livejournal.com
This topic has been bothering me for hours now, and the voices in my head are now commenting. So according to SPN, demon possession works much like goa'uld possession, as far as an innocent host being controlled by a force of evil. This has Vala and the rest of SG-1 pretty riled up. I'm tempted to write fic where the team watches the show with horror and outrage, regarding the Ruby situation. Of course I'm not willing to watch the episode to do this. *sigh* Why do there have to be so many stupid, thoughtless, shallow people in this world?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-11-08 05:44 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Good comparison!

Why do there have to be so many stupid, thoughtless, shallow people in this world?

I wish I knew. Because then maybe I could help fix it.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-12-01 10:51 am (UTC)
ext_35071: (Default)
From: [identity profile] shardsofblu.livejournal.com
Oliver has the best lines in this episode, I still can't get over with the way he stated that he didn't want anything to do with "Clark's... that." So funny! And it's just so refreshingly realistic.

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