butterfly: (Take Another Look -- Supernatural)
[personal profile] butterfly

Smallville

I found the majority of this season to be really well-done (though not without its issues). In particular, the future Big Three of Clark, Lois, and Lex were very neatly moved into their respective emotional positions quite handily and Lana and Clark's relationship had a more graceful finish than it had before.

I have issues with both Lana and Chloe getting forced into the 'helpless damsel' position in the finale, but both of them do get to be more than that often. It doesn't define them.

The Lex/Clark scene was really great. I like that Lois reminded Clark that he'd seen so much to like in Lex earlier in their lives and the dialogue in the Lex/Clark scene was the right mixture of self-righteous "I'm doing this for the planet" and wounded "why didn't you trust me?" from Lex and an appropriate response from Clark, who cares but who has come to realize that Lex was fully responsible for his own moral choices and does not get to hang those on Clark.

Supernatural

Dear Kripke,

I'm not sure that cheering and rewinding to watch again was the response you wanted this member of the audience to have when Ruby called Dean a spineless dick and clocked him one (and then some more). I kinda hope that it was, but since you had Sam adopt Dean's favorite gender-based insult in this episode, I doubt it just a bit. Also, it may be a bad sign that I mostly felt a deep sense of satisfaction at seeing the hellhounds tear Dean up.

On the plus side, you've killed off both of your reoccurring female characters! Oh, wait, was that a plus or a minus? I always get those mixed up.

Sarcastically yours,

butterfly

P.S. I quit Prison Break over this kind of bullshit. My viewership is not guaranteed.

P.P.S. Also, see Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles for notes on how not killing Henriksen might have been a good idea.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-16 07:27 pm (UTC)
amalthia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] amalthia
yeah I liked when Ruby punched Dean, he deserved it.

I'm so very tempted to watch the season finale of SV without catching up on episodes 18 or 19...

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-16 07:32 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
yeah I liked when Ruby punched Dean, he deserved it.

He really, really did.

I'm so very tempted to watch the season finale of SV without catching up on episodes 18 or 19...

I'd recommend watching 18 at some point! It's quite good. 19 sorta sets up the plot for 20 but I'm not sure that you absolutely need it to know what's going on.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-16 07:39 pm (UTC)
ext_1973: (Default)
From: [identity profile] elz.livejournal.com
My viewership is not guaranteed.

Yeah, I'm sort of torn. This is usually the point where I'd drop a show entirely, and I know from experience that continuing to watch something that makes me angry is a bad, bad idea, but I was pretty invested in this one. Sigh.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-16 08:51 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
*sigh*

Yes, exactly. If this show didn't have some stuff about it that I really adored, I'd have dropped it already. But the brother relationship hits so many of the right places for me and I adore watching the two of them together so much.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-16 10:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kita0610.livejournal.com
I haven't watched it all season, but I am totally watching the finale just so I can get the satisfaction of Dean getting punched by a girl.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-17 12:01 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
It was a pretty satisfying moment.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-17 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elynross.livejournal.com
While it was happening? It was AWESOME. You might want to ff to that, and stop right after.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-20 03:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tv-elf.livejournal.com
It's just too bad you had to sit through some of the rest....

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-17 12:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elynross.livejournal.com
Word. I finally deleted all my SPN icons, because I haven't been fannish about it in a long time, but the fact that I had no negative reactions to Dean's demise and condition at the end? I took it as a sign.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-17 01:14 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Yeah, the fact that Dean is screaming in hell and it didn't hurt me at all is definitely a sign that my anger at the show has overtaken my joy in the brothers' relationship.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-17 01:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
He killed off both Bella AND Ruby? The two of them were my main interest in maybe starting the series.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-18 03:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sgriobadh.livejournal.com
He called them bitches and sluts and then left them both to die. So, yeah, he killed them.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-18 04:05 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
The thing that depresses me the most is that before S3 started I was so excited about two female reoccurring characters being brought on board. I was looking forward to the show expanding its horizons and getting to see more women involved in the main action. And then came Ben and his inexplicable gendered insults (seriously, he's eight, where did he learn to use that word so easily?) and I was baffled. And then came MM and I was horrified. And now there's now and I'm not even surprised anymore. I'm angry and disappointed, but I'm not surprised.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-18 05:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
..there was no implication that that was WRONG?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-19 02:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blacksquirrel.livejournal.com
Of course not - he's our He-ro

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-19 02:44 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-18 03:58 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
*sigh*

Yeah. And the way that they were killed off (what [livejournal.com profile] sgriobadh says is basically what happens) just really made me so angry at Dean and at the writers. I'm baffled at the notion that Dean is supposed to be even the slightest bit likable anymore.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-18 05:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com
How has Sam been treated under this development?

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From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-18 05:35 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-18 06:11 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] elz.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-18 03:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2008-05-17 05:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beck-liz.livejournal.com
*sigh* So much of my flist is all about Supernatural, and talk about how "bad" Smallville has gotten, but while I still (mostly) like Sam, Dean and especially Bobby, my interest in SPN has steadily declined whereas my SV interest has only gone up. It's like I was telling [livejournal.com profile] vaznetti in another post, SV has the occasional absolutely horrible episode, yes (cf. "Sleeper"), but it also has a lot of great female characters that it has been doing pretty well by, in the last couple of seasons at least. SPN? Not so much. And even though both shows ended their finales with scenes that didn't leave me with a lot of anxiety (because let's face it, Clark, Lex and Dean are all going to make it, and I don't need spoilers for next season to tell me so), I found the SV ending waaaaaay more satisfying.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-18 04:08 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Right with you on all points -- SV has had some bad episodes and has made some boneheaded choices, but SPN is pretty much waging a war against female power at this point.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-17 11:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blacksquirrel.livejournal.com
Re SPN - Totally. Just, totally. I was so beyond upset when Sam called Ruby "Bitch." Just stop, show. Just stop.

Don't worry about losing all this season's female characters - next season they'll introduce more boring Madonnas in white and more intriguing whores who must be violently reputed.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-18 04:11 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I know! I was all... "don't ruin Sam, too!"

Sam was the POV character that I was desperately holding onto to convince myself that even if Dean hated women that didn't mean that the show was endorsing his point of view. I don't have that anymore.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-18 08:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sgriobadh.livejournal.com
I just... when did Dean start hating women? I just don't get it. Before, he was a horndog, sure, but he wasn't at all mysoginistic. And now- whammo, out of nowhere...

*headdesk*

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From: [identity profile] a-white-rain.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-19 02:51 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] beck-liz.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-19 07:47 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2008-05-19 02:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blacksquirrel.livejournal.com
Yes! I was always wary of Dean's version of masculinity, and lately my concerns have become more and more explicitly canon. Sam was my POV character from the beginning, so seeing him move toward a more violent, gender-polarized masculinity really bothers me. If I continue to watch, I'll be watching ironically.

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From: [identity profile] nostariel.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-19 06:57 am (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] blacksquirrel.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-05-25 04:47 am (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2008-05-19 06:53 am (UTC)
ext_747: Dreamwidth logo done in rainbow swirls. (Default)
From: [identity profile] nostariel.livejournal.com
I really loved when Ruby was kicking the crap out of Dean, and I agree that it's probably a bad sign that I was bouncing up and down with pure joy when it happened.

Thankfully I've never really allowed myself to get too emotionally invested in the show, partly because I saw the original script Kripke used to pitch the show to the studio/network long before the show first aired (my reaction? "Oh, Jenson, NO!" Sam dumping his long term GF without a second thought was a particular highlight) and partly because the character of Dean doesn't come anywhere near the character of Alec in terms of sheer awesome for me.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-19 11:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] beck-liz.livejournal.com
I just saw someone commenting - in a post where [livejournal.com profile] trollprincess's posts on how much misogyny has been in S3 of SPN were linked, no less - that, well. Best to quote: "And compared to the way, say SV, treats it's female characters, Supernatural is doing very well."

*blinks* Smallville treats its women more poorly than SPN does? What show(s) have they been watching?

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butterfly

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