butterfly: (Take Another Look -- Supernatural)
[personal profile] butterfly
I can understand Dean objecting to 'the ends justify the means' (I often object to the philosophy myself), but to base that objection on whether or not someone is a virgin feeds into countless years of misogynistic thinking that pisses me off past the telling.

Dean has shown himself fully capable of understanding the concept of someone sacrificing their life to save many others. Hell, he was willing to pull the trigger on Madison (though Sam got there first), who volunteered to die for exactly the same reason that Nancy did -- to save lives. And Madison was an innocent -- she didn't ask to turn into a werewolf and never wanted to be a danger to anyone.

But she wasn't a virgin and apparently that's still the official measure of virtue in the Supernatural universe.

On a slightly different note, I really hate that they killed Henriksen. I'm not so annoyed about the killing of Nancy because I feel a cold sort of joy about Dean's plan being a failure and acting as if one virgin mattered more than thirty other people ending up with the virgin dead anyway (despite really enjoying Nancy as a character -- she was brave and cool and I really liked her -- but, you know what, I'm a virgin and that doesn't mean that I don't have the right to sacrifice my life in the defense of others if I so choose. Just because she's never had sex doesn't mean Dean gets to strip her of her agency.). If Dean... if Dean just hadn't framed it in terms of 'but she's a virgin; she's never been laid; we can't kill her', I would not have... well, there would be no wellspring of anger.

There was a lot I enjoyed about the episode. I adored Bela and Ruby. Loved Ruby's disgust with Dean's attitude. Loved everything with Henrickson. Loved Sam. Love the Sam and Dean relationship.

I'm uncertain about how I feel about Lilith, as she makes the third Creepy Little Girl for this season. Liked the actress and I'm glad that they didn't go for sex appeal on the big bad, but... are little girls really that creepy? Much more effective as a shock/surprise when it isn't overused.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-23 06:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] revenantrose.livejournal.com
I don't think the comparison to Madison works because Madison herself was a danger to others--Nancy wasn't. They both offered their deaths to save lives, but for different reasons.

And I think Dean used the reasoning that she was a virgin as something to cling to to convince Sam and drive his point home. I don't think he would've been for sacrificing her if she wasn't a virgin (if you don't consider that she had to be for the spell). But I think that really horrified him because (this sounds stupid, but) sex is big part of life for him. For me it'd be like somebody who'd never seen the ocean offering themselves up--but they've never even seen the ocean! For Dean, ocean=sex.

I remember when a kind in my class was killed my brother's first reaction was, 'Dude, that sucks, he died a virgin.' I think Dean would've had the exact same reaction if it had been a boy virgin offering his life.

But I do agree that Dean shouldn't have been able to take that decision out of her hands, or at least, that whole conversation with Sam should've involved everyone. They should have weighed Dean's plan against Ruby's and if it came down to Nancy's choice, she should've been able to make it. Maybe that happened, though. Though I doubt it.

I think, overall, the SPN writers don't spend enough time actively trying to avoid stereotypes--or else they embrace them, a trend I've noticed. I think it's a sign of laziness rather than a sign that the writers really are misogynistic.

(dude, I think this comment is as long as your post. meep.)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-02-27 03:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elynross.livejournal.com
I was really, really hoping they'd counter the cliche, and make the deputy the virgin. Otherwise, YESYESYES, to your post.

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